Is Satan shown lying in the bible?

[Tonus]

I'm not sure if you're serious or not but I'll try to explain.
Christ took all sin, that is every sin committed and would be committed until the end of time, as if they were all His and then payed the penalty for them.

I think it's more proper to say that he has a standing offer to pay. If he paid for all sin, past and present, then humans would have no obligations to god because that ticket is paid for. Granted, there may still be people who live by the "once saved, always saved" belief, in which case this would apply. But for most Christians it is still required that they accept Jesus as their savior, yes?

The perfect Christ took these on before He died on the cross, He felt the weight of this mass of sin on His perfect life, it's no wonder He expired so quickly on the cross. I'm sure Hefner will be glad to let you pay for his sins, if you decide to take on this mission.

But how do we quantify that "weight" or the "mass" of sin? Guilt? Did Jesus feel the guilt for all of the wickedness done by everyone ever? And what would that be like? People feel guilty all the time, and it's the sort of thing that we find ways to get over or live with or otherwise deal with. Was Jesus just overwhelmed by guilt for a short time? All of the guilt for all of the sins ever committed (both past and future) would be like a gnat bearing the weight of all of the newspapers ever made; it's so overkill that the gnat would never be able to appreciate how badly it was crushed.

Could the perfect Jesus really understand how guilt feels, and would he really be able to appreciate guilt magnified to such a degree? It's a concept that I cannot wrap my head around, and it seems a lot like the physical suffering and death. To an eternal being, who always was and always will be, any such suffering is barely the blink of an eye, and then it is gone. I don't think that god can understand our suffering; the best he can do is try it on for a short time and then go back to being god. That's a very cozy safety net to have.

[Mister Agenda]

I'm sure all those men who lost limbs and suffered sever brain damage on D-Day are glad you set things straight, they were always credited for sacrifice, but now thanks to you we know they sacrificed nothing. Oh and the families of those who lost loved ones in WWII or had loved ones maimed are glad you've set the record straight that they also sacrificed nothing. Such thoughtful insight you have brought to these people. My uncle was at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese stuck, I'll be sure to tell him he did not sacrifice anything when he lost so many friends, according to you.

What you're saying is pretty much the opposite of what she said. Asshole.

You are a real idiot, heartless is probably a better description, I had uncles in WWII and I know better than many what was sacrificed and have a great respect for them and they know I do. I have many friends who had love ones killed or maimed in WWII and they all have great respect for them. The Christian does much for our military and honor them on several day every year. We know all to well they are the reason that people like you can run down the people of this country just so you can have your laughs. Christians celebrate the sacrifice of our military because they fought for our freedom to worship God and a great deal of those in the military during WWII were Christians who died for you to have the freedom to run down their loved ones. We're so glad you have such a tender heart for the heartless.

Still getting the opposite of the point and being mad about it.

Prove it was a trick, your full of worthless words it's time you backed up what comes spewing from that heartless mouth of your's.

Whether it was an illusion (he didn't really die) or it was a hoax (he died and didn't come back) or it was a miracle (he only died temporarily), it's still a trick.

Who said we think we've sacrificed anything in our belief, you are spewing again, spewing what you want to believe and not what's true, hatred causes such things.

Here, you had a point, but you had to spoil it by ranting about hate. Thanks for clarifying that it is hate that causes people to 'spew' what they want to believe and not what's true. I usually assume it's being mistaken, but from your words I know that in your case, at least, it's hate. What you project says a lot about you.

Yes our belief in Christ and the sacrifice He made for us is exactly what will give us a place in heaven, not a earned place, but by grace only. You have no idea what Christ sacrificed for you, me and everyone else and if you do not learn this then your chosen destination awaits you.

Argument ad baculum is a fallacy. You shouldn't believe something is true because of the consequences of not believing it.

You will find out what the cost for an eternal presence with God cost Him, by then though it will be to late and those gods you depend on want be able to help you one bit.

She's talking about what it costs Christians. As someone who thinks fundamental evangelical Christianity is a particularly perniciious delusion that undermines Christianity as an institution, thanks for making yourself out to be an enforcer for a cosmic Mafia Don. Threat delivered, pat yourself on the back and report back to the big Boss. Guys like you do more to drive people away from your religion than we ever could. I use you as an example when people express disbelief in the existence of Christians like you. You're a gift.

---

If the 'or else' was death or intense torture, I certainly would, and so would the authorities.

Sometimes you surprise me at the way you go over board on questions.

So you don't think the punishment for not being a Christian is eternal torment? If you do, how am I going over board in my comparison? You compare God to a parent, but parents don't knowingly allow their children to be tortured forever if they can prevent it.

What you believe doesn't matter and just because you're in the majority here doesn't make you right.

Of course what I believe doesn't matter to YOU. That would require you to possess simple empathy. And of course, it's not being in the majority here that makes me right. It's my evidence and reasoning that do that, whether a hundred people agree with me or none. I don't know for sure there is no God, but I do know for sure that the reasons you offer to believe he is real are not sound. It's not my fault that your arguments are lousy.

I do have God's word on much and it's confirmed through scripture.

You believe you do.

You can't disprove creation, no one can or ever will be able to, only God was there at the time.

I can't disprove invisible flying unicorns either.

No they wouldn't, Christianity is the only one that convicts the heart and thus is the only one attacked so vigorously.

You're kidding yourself, but that's not surprising. Christians go on and on about what a special snowflake Christianity is...and so do Muslims about Islam.

No other belief is attacked world wide as Christianity, many Christians are killed in other parts of the world for their beliefs, but I guess that's okay with you.

And there's what makes you an asshole, GC. You keep projecting your hatred onto others. No one should be killed because they believe something other than what is approved of by the authorities. Real persecution of Christians (and anyone else) is a real tragedy. Complaints that criticizing Christianity on the internet or requiring Christians to follow the same laws that apply to everyone else, is persecution...is comedy.

Jesus never had to suffer through what He did, He lived in paradise as a sinless perfect being. He never caused sin nor did He invite it into the world, man did that, yet He had to pay the price so He could reclaim those He so loves. Those who do not accept what He did are lost to Him by their own decision and this makes Him sad, because they wouldn't accept the gift of life. It may be silliness to you, for me it is serious, very serious.

If you're right, he had a choice that is never given to us. We all die, too many of us in prolonged, horrifying agony which we don't choose, too many of us young. To be human is to only be able to play the cards you're dealt, to not know you're getting paradise at the end, to not be in control of what happens to you. The creature you describe was never capable of being truly human.

The resurrection was the finish of a promise, without the resurrection there would be no eternal life, why those who oppose what Christ did for us can't see that the promise had to be completed through Him is a mystery to me. I guess I should be resigned to the fact non-believers can't put together multiple thoughts into one reasonable conclusion.

Lots of things that are obvious to rational people seem to be a mystery to fanatics. It's the nature of fanatics to not be able to understand why they sound ridiculous, or that they drive people away from their beliefs instead of draw them towards them.

You're right I can't, but I do know what it means to and for me and have accepted it's reality. This is what God has asked of us.

That's what you believe God has asked of us, but you can't back that belief up.

I do not try to estimate what He did, it's far beyond anyone's comprehension.

Um, you know people can look at your post where you're calculating Jesus's suffering.

Seems the omniscient God of creation found it necessary, actually He found it to be the only way.

An omniscient and omnipotent God of creation couldn't possibly find his options limited to one.

Jesus in His human thoughts asked the Father if it could be another way, then in His divine knowledge He knew this was the only way. Power has nothing to do with this, if power is all it took it would have happened, you need to get real here, love was and is the only answer to the problem man brought to this world and himself.

How did that snake get into the garden? Blaming us for what happend in that story is like blaming two year olds for what happened when they were left in a room with a loaded shotgun and a serial killer egging them on.

By the way you do not have to forgive any eternal sin, why, because you are not eternal.

I get it. It's so hard for God to forgive eternal sin that it's beyond his power to just do it without all the theater.

Here's what I think really happened: One of the many self-proclaimed messiahs of the time got himself offed for sedition by the Romans and some of his followers started the rumor that he didn't stay dead. There's a good chance that wasn't evern the first time that scenario played out in Judea (a certain Simon who preceded Jesus was proclaimed a messiah and his followers may have claimed he returned after three days, but that part is murky).

We have seen religions and a messiah develop from the flimsiest beginnings in modern times (cargo cults and John Frum). What makes yours exceptional is Constantine picking it to be the official religion of his empire.

Now I could be wrong, and you could be right, although I think that's improbable. My being able to cope with the idea that I might be wrong (and that you being wrong doesn't require malice on your part) is what makes me the rational one and you the fanatic.

[Rampant.A.I.]

"No one's proven the Bible is faulty". That's a lark. Clearly, science has shown we're all made out of clay, the earth is 6,000 years old, and zombies exist. Good show, truly well-researched.

Did you even read pass Genesis?

[Minimalist]

All will in time be raised and live an eternal life in a physical body, the scriptures are clear on this.

And thanks for providing an example of the mentality it takes to accept such utter fucking nonsense.

[EvolutionKills]

Did you even read pass Genesis?

Short answer? No.

Long answer?

[Angrboda]

I made baby Jesus cry. Oh gnoes!