(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: [quote='Chad32' pid='598180' dateline='1391558337']
[quote='Godschild' pid='598164' dateline='1391557786']
[quote='Chad32' pid='598099' dateline='1391555079']
Yes, it matters. It all matters. That's what justice is. You can't have a guy that proclaims he's the biggest baddest thing in existence, claim he's loving, merciful, just, and all that, claim we're all horrible people and his way is the only way,

GC Wrote:God's way is the only way, the only way to eternal life, this is what God is saying. He says that man's way is the only way, the only way to eternal punishment, Satan and his demons have already made their way and their sentence if fixed. Man has a choice still, God's way or his.

Quote:There's that blackmail again. Not only will daddy not let us into the party if we don't behave, he'll force us into a pit of fire on top of that.

Quote:So I guess you felt the same about your parents when they gave you a choice to mind or else.

Well my dad isn't beating me every day for getting an F on a report card 20 years ago, nor has he ever threatened to. Plus I know he exists, and I know he took effort to care for me. The end result of parenting is to train someone up so they can be independent, and live their own life. That's how a child is to be raised, but Yahweh wants us to be slaves.

Quote: and expect everyone to just take his word for it. Especially when he works through followers and a faulty book, instead of actually showing up and really explaining himself.

GC Wrote:God being the creator of the universe who else word do you want, who else has all the information. No one has yet proven the Bible is faulty, people have had a couple thousand years to do so and still are failing.

Quote:The burden of proof isn't on us. Show the world that Yahweh is more real than all the other deities that have been worshipped throughout history, and I'll consider him real. Worshipping is a different story, but let's take it one step at a time. The bible claims he's real. We still need proof.

Quote:I've witnessed to the fact it's now on your plate, the Bible makes no claim to God's reality. If it's not your responsibility to prove the Bible faulty then why have non-believers like yourself been trying to do so for 2000 years.

The bible makes the only claim to Yahweh's reality. I guess if anyone tried to prove the bible wrong throughout history, it would be so christians would stop burning pagans and such alive at the stake and let people who didn't want to follow Yahweh live their own lives. The only problem atheists have with christianity is that you guys try to force your beliefs on others. If you did what Jesus said, about praying quietly at home, or just stuck to churches without trying to pass laws prohibiting homosexuals from being together, then we wouldn't be having these problems.

Quote:No, I'm not highly impressed with him sacrificing himself to himself to save us from an eternity of punishment that he made for those who don't follow him. Especially when he doesn't seem to have sacrificed anything at all.

GC Wrote:Jesus gave His life for us, if you do not think He sacrificed anything then why don't you have someone to do to you as was done to Him. We only have the description from the Bible so that will have to be the standard. Jesus gave Himself for mankind, not for the Father, Christ's sacrifice was for man. You have never been a perfect being so how is it you can judge what the perfect Christ sacrificed.

Quote:If someone could guarantee that I'd rise again to rule the world if I let them torture me for a few days, I'd take it. Christ's sacrifice was a publicity stunt. It was not a necessity to convince Yahweh to forgive people.

Quote:That's about the worse statement I've see here. You can't know how Christ suffered, there's no way you can know what it's like to be a sinless being then take all the sins ever committed and would be committed upon yourself, that is hell times billions. The perfect loving God became shame for a bunch of people that only He could love enough to die for. God's forgivness comes only through what Christ did, so yes it was absolutely a necessity, without it salvation would no be possible for us.

Jesus' story wasn't the only one in history about a virgin birth and resurrection and such. I guess maybe he's eternally depressed because of what happened, but in that case it just makes Yahweh look worse. It's not like sin is a physical thing. Sin is just things that people do that Yahweh doesn't want us to do. I can actually kind of relate to that, actually. I don't always get my way either. It bothers me when I don't get everything I want, or when people bullied me in school just because they could, or that my dad treats me like crap.

I guess you could call that a burden, but I also don't go around killing people that do those things. I'm not going to go shoot up a school because some people get bullied. Some people are just not going to do what I want, and instead of going crazy over it, I grow up and realize that not every free thinking person is going to see things my way. I can know what it's like to be "burdened" by the thought of people in the world not worshiping me. It doesn't keep me from living my life.

I admit I don't understand what it means to "take everyone's sins upon oneself." How does that work, and what is the cost? Depending on what it means, I'd volunteer to take Hugh Hefner's sins upon myself, especially the ones involving two or more playmates at the same time.

(February 3, 2014 at 4:59 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

In modern English, if I tell you 'when you eat this you will certainly die', and you eat it, when do you expect to die? When you freakin' eat it, right?

(February 3, 2014 at 4:59 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: In context? Sure you're not a christian ? Cos thats our trick, to use the context to indicate a meaning beyond the bald text. The idea of the fruit being poisoned is just something you read into the text, its neither stated nor inferred.

The difference is that I'm not using any context except what the words in the sentence before the word 'die' mean.

(February 3, 2014 at 4:59 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Sure it was.

in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.....

You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,

I don't have a Bible handy, but I'm sure you are quoting accurately. That's what I get for relying on my memory. Thanks for the correction. Too bad for them they didn't think to try that one before the other, eh?

(February 3, 2014 at 4:59 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: There's never any indication at all that Adam and Eve would be immortal if they didn't eat from the Tree of Knowledge.

There kind of is.

Quote:the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Quote:It was funny how Yahweh was in such a hurry to evict them before they could get a bite off the Life fruit, like there would be no stopping Adam and Eve if they had some of that!

That's the story. That God was OK with them eating any fruit (including the fruit from the tree of life) UNTIL they scarfed the knowledge fruit.

Quote:It's a just-so story: Why do we die? Why don't snakes have legs? Why is childbirth painful?

I can't see why people would take it so much more seriously than 'How the leopard got its spots'.

Here I tend to agree. And there are logical and moral holes in it through which one could drive a bus. But nonetheless, I think that in the story (which is what I think it is, a story) the devil does lie. In the NIV version at least.

Could you be more explicit about what the lie was? With a quote, maybe?

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(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: So I guess you felt the same about your parents when they gave you a choice to mind or else.

If the 'or else' was death or intense torture, I certainly would, and so would the authorities.

GC Wrote:God being the creator of the universe who else word do you want, who else has all the information. No one has yet proven the Bible is faulty, people have had a couple thousand years to do so and still are failing.

You don't have his word. you have a book you claim is his word. We don't believe you're right about that. And we have found plenty of fault, starting with chapter one

(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've witnessed to the fact it's now on your plate, the Bible makes no claim to God's reality. If it's not your responsibility to prove the Bible faulty then why have non-believers like yourself been trying to do so for 2000 years.

It's no more effort than we'd put into trying to show belief in Santa Clause is faulty if 70% of the country believed it and over 40% were trying to legislate based on it. If some other religion were the majority in the USA, it would get more attention from us.

GC Wrote:Jesus gave His life for us, if you do not think He sacrificed anything then why don't you have someone to do to you as was done to Him.

If Jesus gave his life for us, he wouldn't still be alive, would he? He only loaned his life out for a few days, according to the story. It's the silliness of claiming he's still around that cheapens any sacrifice he may have made, and the additional silliness of the sacrifice to being necessary so he could forgive us. If I get myself killed for your sake, it will be a real sacrifice that I won't get to hop up from in a few days.

(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: We only have the description from the Bible so that will have to be the standard. Jesus gave Himself for mankind, not for the Father, Christ's sacrifice was for man. You have never been a perfect being so how is it you can judge what the perfect Christ sacrificed.

Because when we die we stay dead, and apparently that was too much for Jesus to give.

(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: That's about the worse statement I've see here. You can't know how Christ suffered, there's no way you can know what it's like to be a sinless being then take all the sins ever committed and would be committed upon yourself, that is hell times billions. The perfect loving God became shame for a bunch of people that only He could love enough to die for. God's forgivness comes only through what Christ did, so yes it was absolutely a necessity, without it salvation would no be possible for us.

You can't know how he suffered either, but that doesn't stop you from estimating. Not only wasn't it a necessity, it doesn't even make sense. I don't have to cut off my hand if I want to forgive someone, I just do it. Are you seriously be claiming that God couldn't just decide to forgive us without a human sacrifice? If so, it doesn't sound very omnipotent of him.

It occurs to me that Christians don't believe the rest of us stay dead when we die, either, so arguing that Jesus didn't really die is arguing with somebody who already believes it's all just pretend death anyways. What the fuck? Real sacrifice is dying and staying dead. Like all those young boys who died at Normandy did. They went there, knowing they might die, and knowing what that would mean to them and their loved ones, and they did it anyway. Compared to that, what Jesus did was no more impressive than a cheap card trick. But do Christians remember the real sacrifices which have been made to make their comfortable lives possible and real? No. They'd rather remember some cheap bit of fake theater. And for why? So they can feel special about the equally cheap bit of theater in which they give themselves over to belief in Christ. The fuck? That's no sacrifice at all. Believing something doesn't take any sacrifice. And they feel this, and this alone, earns them a place in heaven? The fuck? Since when did belonging in the presence of the ultimate come so fucking cheap? They probably believe this shit because deep down, where it counts, they realize they don't possess the stuff of greatness, and are all too eager to embrace the booby prize. The sacrifice of Christ is pure shit compared to the real sacrifices made by real people every day.

(February 5, 2014 at 6:32 pm)rasetsu Wrote: It occurs to me that Christians don't believe the rest of us stay dead when we die, either, so arguing that Jesus didn't really die is arguing with somebody who already believes it's all just pretend death anyways.

All will in time be raised and live an eternal life in a physical body, the scriptures are clear on this. Physical death was never meant to be a permanent state, the only permanent death scripture speaks of is spiritual.

Quote: Real sacrifice is dying and staying dead. Like all those young boys who died at Normandy did. They went there, knowing they might die, and knowing what that would mean to them and their loved ones, and they did it anyway.

I'm sure all those men who lost limbs and suffered sever brain damage on D-Day are glad you set things straight, they were always credited for sacrifice, but now thanks to you we know they sacrificed nothing. Oh and the families of those who lost loved ones in WWII or had loved ones maimed are glad you've set the record straight that they also sacrificed nothing. Such thoughtful insight you have brought to these people. My uncle was at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese stuck, I'll be sure to tell him he did not sacrifice anything when he lost so many friends, according to you.

Quote: Compared to that, what Jesus did was no more impressive than a cheap card trick. But do Christians remember the real sacrifices which have been made to make their comfortable lives possible and real? No.

You are a real idiot, heartless is probably a better description, I had uncles in WWII and I know better than many what was sacrificed and have a great respect for them and they know I do. I have many friends who had love ones killed or maimed in WWII and they all have great respect for them. The Christian does much for our military and honor them on several day every year. We know all to well they are the reason that people like you can run down the people of this country just so you can have your laughs. Christians celebrate the sacrifice of our military because they fought for our freedom to worship God and a great deal of those in the military during WWII were Christians who died for you to have the freedom to run down their loved ones. We're so glad you have such a tender heart for the heartless.

Quote:They'd rather remember some cheap bit of fake theater. And for why? So they can feel special about the equally cheap bit of theater in which they give themselves over to belief in Christ.

Prove it was a trick, your full of worthless words it's time you backed up what comes spewing from that heartless mouth of your's.

Quote:That's no sacrifice at all. Believing something doesn't take any sacrifice. And they feel this, and this alone, earns them a place in heaven?

Who said we think we've sacrificed anything in our belief, you are spewing again, spewing what you want to believe and not what's true, hatred causes such things.
Yes our belief in Christ and the sacrifice He made for us is exactly what will give us a place in heaven, not a earned place, but by grace only. You have no idea what Christ sacrificed for you, me and everyone else and if you do not learn this then your chosen destination awaits you.

Quote:Since when did belonging in the presence of the ultimate come so fucking cheap? They probably believe this shit because deep down, where it counts, they realize they don't possess the stuff of greatness, and are all too eager to embrace the booby prize. The sacrifice of Christ is pure shit compared to the real sacrifices made by real people every day.

You will find out what the cost for an eternal presence with God cost Him, by then though it will be to late and those gods you depend on want be able to help you one bit.

GC

(February 4, 2014 at 7:49 pm)Godschild Wrote: So I guess you felt the same about your parents when they gave you a choice to mind or else.

Quote:Well my dad isn't beating me every day for getting an F on a report card 20 years ago, nor has he ever threatened to. Plus I know he exists, and I know he took effort to care for me. The end result of parenting is to train someone up so they can be independent, and live their own life. That's how a child is to be raised, but Yahweh wants us to be slaves.

If God wanted you as a slave you would be one right now, since you're not it seems your statement is false.
Your dad is not the eternal creator who rules over an entire universe.

GC Wrote:I've witnessed to the fact it's now on your plate, the Bible makes no claim to God's reality. If it's not your responsibility to prove the Bible faulty then why have non-believers like yourself been trying to do so for 2000 years.

Quote:The bible makes the only claim to Yahweh's reality. I guess if anyone tried to prove the bible wrong throughout history, it would be so christians would stop burning pagans and such alive at the stake and let people who didn't want to follow Yahweh live their own lives. The only problem atheists have with christianity is that you guys try to force your beliefs on others. If you did what Jesus said, about praying quietly at home, or just stuck to churches without trying to pass laws prohibiting homosexuals from being together, then we wouldn't be having these problems.

The Bible makes no claim to God's reality, God said His creation speaks for His reality, you just ain't be listening. Many have made grave mistakes in the name of Christianity, Christians do not deny this nor would we condone it today. I know a few Christians in other countries do some bad thing, that's out of the control of the church in this country and we speak out against it.
You all keep saying Christians are trying to force Christianity on non-believers, it's beyond me why you think so. If you are however talking about passing laws, then you need to consider this, we are a part of this country and have the right to voice our opinions on what we believe makes a better country. If a majority vote with us then it's law and in that majority will be non-believes who believe in that particular instance we are right. Unlike you and many non-believers you believe that what one biased judge says should be law, the country wasn't founded on this principle.

GC Wrote:That's about the worse statement I've see here. You can't know how Christ suffered, there's no way you can know what it's like to be a sinless being then take all the sins ever committed and would be committed upon yourself, that is hell times billions. The perfect loving God became shame for a bunch of people that only He could love enough to die for. God's forgivness comes only through what Christ did, so yes it was absolutely a necessity, without it salvation would no be possible for us.

Quote:Jesus' story wasn't the only one in history about a virgin birth and resurrection and such. I guess maybe he's eternally depressed because of what happened, but in that case it just makes Yahweh look worse. It's not like sin is a physical thing. Sin is just things that people do that Yahweh doesn't want us to do. I can actually kind of relate to that, actually. I don't always get my way either. It bothers me when I don't get everything I want, or when people bullied me in school just because they could, or that my dad treats me like crap.

Well poor you you think you've got it so tough, compared to many you're on top of the world.
Sin is the physical action from thought, yes Jesus said certain thoughts were sinful and for many reasons, but for one main reason so we would train ourselves in restraint, this would help keep us from actions later regretted.
As for Jesus feeling bad, He knows the truth, the whole truth and in the end He is the truth and that's what really matters.

Quote:I guess you could call that a burden, but I also don't go around killing people that do those things. I'm not going to go shoot up a school because some people get bullied. Some people are just not going to do what I want, and instead of going crazy over it, I grow up and realize that not every free thinking person is going to see things my way. I can know what it's like to be "burdened" by the thought of people in the world not worshiping me. It doesn't keep me from living my life.

You might not but others have shot up schools. I don't live an oppressed life either, I exercise my right to worship regardless of what others think. I do not see it as a burden because others believe I should isolate myself in worship and belief, actually it ain't going to happen.

GC

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(February 4, 2014 at 10:04 pm)Tonus Wrote: I admit I don't understand what it means to "take everyone's sins upon oneself." How does that work, and what is the cost? Depending on what it means, I'd volunteer to take Hugh Hefner's sins upon myself, especially the ones involving two or more playmates at the same time.

I'm not sure if you're serious or not but I'll try to explain.
Christ took all sin, that is every sin committed and would be committed until the end of time, as if they were all His and then payed the penalty for them. The perfect Christ took these on before He died on the cross, He felt the weight of this mass of sin on His perfect life, it's no wonder He expired so quickly on the cross. I'm sure Hefner will be glad to let you pay for his sins, if you decide to take on this mission.

GC

(February 5, 2014 at 12:59 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: So I guess you felt the same about your parents when they gave you a choice to mind or else.

If the 'or else' was death or intense torture, I certainly would, and so would the authorities.

Sometimes you surprise me at the way you go over board on questions.

GC Wrote:God being the creator of the universe who else word do you want, who else has all the information. No one has yet proven the Bible is faulty, people have had a couple thousand years to do so and still are failing.

Quote:You don't have his word. you have a book you claim is his word. We don't believe you're right about that. And we have found plenty of fault, starting with chapter one

What you believe doesn't matter and just because you're in the majority here doesn't make you right. I do have God's word on much and it's confirmed through scripture. You can't disprove creation, no one can or ever will be able to, only God was there at the time.

(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've witnessed to the fact it's now on your plate, the Bible makes no claim to God's reality. If it's not your responsibility to prove the Bible faulty then why have non-believers like yourself been trying to do so for 2000 years.

Quote:It's no more effort than we'd put into trying to show belief in Santa Clause is faulty if 70% of the country believed it and over 40% were trying to legislate based on it. If some other religion were the majority in the USA, it would get more attention from us.

No they wouldn't, Christianity is the only one that convicts the heart and thus is the only one attacked so vigorously. No other belief is attacked world wide as Christianity, many Christians are killed in other parts of the world for their beliefs, but I guess that's okay with you.

GC Wrote:Jesus gave His life for us, if you do not think He sacrificed anything then why don't you have someone to do to you as was done to Him.

Quote:If Jesus gave his life for us, he wouldn't still be alive, would he? He only loaned his life out for a few days, according to the story. It's the silliness of claiming he's still around that cheapens any sacrifice he may have made, and the additional silliness of the sacrifice to being necessary so he could forgive us. If I get myself killed for your sake, it will be a real sacrifice that I won't get to hop up from in a few days.

Jesus never had to suffer through what He did, He lived in paradise as a sinless perfect being. He never caused sin nor did He invite it into the world, man did that, yet He had to pay the price so He could reclaim those He so loves. Those who do not accept what He did are lost to Him by their own decision and this makes Him sad, because they wouldn't accept the gift of life. It may be silliness to you, for me it is serious, very serious.

(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: We only have the description from the Bible so that will have to be the standard. Jesus gave Himself for mankind, not for the Father, Christ's sacrifice was for man. You have never been a perfect being so how is it you can judge what the perfect Christ sacrificed.

Quote:Because when we die we stay dead, and apparently that was too much for Jesus to give.

The resurrection was the finish of a promise, without the resurrection there would be no eternal life, why those who oppose what Christ did for us can't see that the promise had to be completed through Him is a mystery to me. I guess I should be resigned to the fact non-believers can't put together multiple thoughts into one reasonable conclusion.

(February 4, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: That's about the worse statement I've see here. You can't know how Christ suffered, there's no way you can know what it's like to be a sinless being then take all the sins ever committed and would be committed upon yourself, that is hell times billions. The perfect loving God became shame for a bunch of people that only He could love enough to die for. God's forgivness comes only through what Christ did, so yes it was absolutely a necessity, without it salvation would no be possible for us.

Quote:You can't know how he suffered either, but that doesn't stop you from estimating. Not only wasn't it a necessity, it doesn't even make sense. I don't have to cut off my hand if I want to forgive someone, I just do it. Are you seriously be claiming that God couldn't just decide to forgive us without a human sacrifice? If so, it doesn't sound very omnipotent of him.

You're right I can't, but I do know what it means to and for me and have accepted it's reality. This is what God has asked of us.
I do not try to estimate what He did, it's far beyond anyone's comprehension. Seems the omniscient God of creation found it necessary, actually He found it to be the only way. Jesus in His human thoughts asked the Father if it could be another way, then in His divine knowledge He knew this was the only way. Power has nothing to do with this, if power is all it took it would have happened, you need to get real here, love was and is the only answer to the problem man brought to this world and himself.
By the way you do not have to forgive any eternal sin, why, because you are not eternal.

GC

If god is far beyond comprehension, then u dont understand him.. stop saying u know what scripture says and what jesus did

Apologies if someone has posted this already.

(February 6, 2014 at 3:41 am)Godschild Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='598164' dateline='1391557786']
So I guess you felt the same about your parents when they gave you a choice to mind or else.

Quote:Well my dad isn't beating me every day for getting an F on a report card 20 years ago, nor has he ever threatened to. Plus I know he exists, and I know he took effort to care for me. The end result of parenting is to train someone up so they can be independent, and live their own life. That's how a child is to be raised, but Yahweh wants us to be slaves.

Quote:If God wanted you as a slave you would be one right now, since you're not it seems your statement is false.
Your dad is not the eternal creator who rules over an entire universe.

You can call them worshipers if you want. If people give up their lives to follow someone else in every step they take, for fear of unending punishment, they are a slave. Their lives are not their own. What exactly does he get out of creating people just to fawn over him all the time? This kind of relationship would never be considered healthy among people. No my dad didn't create the world, but he's also not a mass murdering narcissist either. He has better character than your middle eastern deity.

GC Wrote:I've witnessed to the fact it's now on your plate, the Bible makes no claim to God's reality. If it's not your responsibility to prove the Bible faulty then why have non-believers like yourself been trying to do so for 2000 years.

Quote:The bible makes the only claim to Yahweh's reality. I guess if anyone tried to prove the bible wrong throughout history, it would be so christians would stop burning pagans and such alive at the stake and let people who didn't want to follow Yahweh live their own lives. The only problem atheists have with christianity is that you guys try to force your beliefs on others. If you did what Jesus said, about praying quietly at home, or just stuck to churches without trying to pass laws prohibiting homosexuals from being together, then we wouldn't be having these problems.

Quote:The Bible makes no claim to God's reality, God said His creation speaks for His reality, you just ain't be listening. Many have made grave mistakes in the name of Christianity, Christians do not deny this nor would we condone it today. I know a few Christians in other countries do some bad thing, that's out of the control of the church in this country and we speak out against it.
You all keep saying Christians are trying to force Christianity on non-believers, it's beyond me why you think so. If you are however talking about passing laws, then you need to consider this, we are a part of this country and have the right to voice our opinions on what we believe makes a better country. If a majority vote with us then it's law and in that majority will be non-believes who believe in that particular instance we are right. Unlike you and many non-believers you believe that what one biased judge says should be law, the country wasn't founded on this principle.

Yeah, and creation is evidence of Vishnu's reality, and Osiris' reality, and Zeus' reality, and Odin's reality, and so forth and so on. Or maybe the world is only evidence of the world's reality. There are older stories of creator deities than that which is spoken of in the torah, and before the torah, people worshiped different gods. That's why I say the bible has the only claim of Yahweh's existence, because he's not even close to the only deity that has been worshiped in history.

I guess you need to read up on the crusades, spanish inquisition, witch trials, and so forth for christians persecuting others. Theocracic governments are demonstrably bad for cultures, where largely atheist countries tend to be better. You have no right to pass laws according to your book, because the bill of rights gives us freedom of religion, and tells us to separate church and state. People have forces their beliefs on others throughout history. part of the reason this country was founded on freedom of religion was because across Europe catholics and protestants were killing each other. I didn't just pull this idea that christians have historically forced their religion on others out of my ass.

GC Wrote:That's about the worse statement I've see here. You can't know how Christ suffered, there's no way you can know what it's like to be a sinless being then take all the sins ever committed and would be committed upon yourself, that is hell times billions. The perfect loving God became shame for a bunch of people that only He could love enough to die for. God's forgivness comes only through what Christ did, so yes it was absolutely a necessity, without it salvation would no be possible for us.

Quote:Jesus' story wasn't the only one in history about a virgin birth and resurrection and such. I guess maybe he's eternally depressed because of what happened, but in that case it just makes Yahweh look worse. It's not like sin is a physical thing. Sin is just things that people do that Yahweh doesn't want us to do. I can actually kind of relate to that, actually. I don't always get my way either. It bothers me when I don't get everything I want, or when people bullied me in school just because they could, or that my dad treats me like crap.

Quote:Well poor you you think you've got it so tough, compared to many you're on top of the world.
Sin is the physical action from thought, yes Jesus said certain thoughts were sinful and for many reasons, but for one main reason so we would train ourselves in restraint, this would help keep us from actions later regretted.
As for Jesus feeling bad, He knows the truth, the whole truth and in the end He is the truth and that's what really matters.

I know I have it a lot better than many people on earth. Once he proves he exists, we can talk all about how he had a really bad week before he got to rule the cosmos. I'll make sure to give him a hug for you.

Quote:I guess you could call that a burden, but I also don't go around killing people that do those things. I'm not going to go shoot up a school because some people get bullied. Some people are just not going to do what I want, and instead of going crazy over it, I grow up and realize that not every free thinking person is going to see things my way. I can know what it's like to be "burdened" by the thought of people in the world not worshiping me. It doesn't keep me from living my life.

Quote:You might not but others have shot up schools. I don't live an oppressed life either, I exercise my right to worship regardless of what others think. I do not see it as a burden because others believe I should isolate myself in worship and belief, actually it ain't going to happen.

That's what makes me better than them. Because I didn't do that stuff. That's also what makes me better than the way Yahweh is portrayed in the bible. You don't see it as a burden because you want to do it. Many people wouldn't, and they shouldn't be shamed or forced into doing it.