Question for Christians/Muslims etc.

[theVOID]

And if matter has always been then we would not exist now

Lol - Just how did you arrive at the conclusion that if matter always existed we couldn't?

for if it did not at one point have a beginning then also by the laws of thermo entropy would occur and all energy would have been lost.

The Second Law applies to CLOSED and ISOLATED systems - Our planet is an OPEN system, we are receiving energy and matter constantly from the sun in excess of the needs of all biological systems on this planet.

scientist now have to find how that could have been for much of the big bang defies the laws of physics

Nonsense - If you're going to make claims like this you need sources.

These things are the what Stephen Hawking is trying to prove with his equation for all things.

Just because Stephen Hawking couldn't develop a unified field theory doesn't mean that it is impossible or that we won't in the future discover information that is key in solving the equations.

Why would a perfect God create imperfect beings

Why would man invent such an imperfect god?

well, He didn't. He did not create divine beings but He did create beings that were without sin.

Or so your fairytales say.

Were they imperfect because they made a wrong choice, no. They knew it was wrong and chose to rebel. Man in his desire to be more like God rebelled and created separation with God.

It was god's fault, if the story is to be believed. God created a talking snake and put it directly in the garden knowing that it would talk to Eve, knowing that it would convince her to eat the fruit or the tree of knowledge (i wonder why the bible condemns knowledge???),knowing that they would be kicked out of the garden, knowing that he would have to introduce sin, knowing that in a few thousand years he would have to flood and kill every single one of them and that even that still would not work so he would have to send himself down to earth in the form of his virgin-born son to sacrifice himself to himself, for 3 whole days, before resurrecting himself as the ruler of the universe.... Yeah, it's Adam and Eve's fault that your supposed Omniscient god couldn't predict all of this happening.

Is it God's fault that He has given you freedom and you chose wrong, even after He told you it was wrong? No. Did God not know we would rebel? No, He knew, but even before He created us, He loved us and was willing to give Himself for us.

God has never told me what he wants, that only comes from people who supposedly speak on his behalf carrying around a book that god was supposedly responsible for.

Again it is true there are many stories similar to the account of Bible. But my answer to you are that you can also find many counterfeits to the American dollar. Every man be the conviction of his heart tries to make a god into his own image and has perverted the image of the true God.

The difference being their are methods for testing the validity of currency.

How does naturalism explain the natural mind? If we are just here by chance of random mutations,

I'll stop you now.... It is random mutation combined with natural selection, that is VERY different to random mutation alone because everything is selected against the earth it's self and the environment it contains.

then our brains are little more than chemical reactions, and our rationality should therefore not be trusted because it is not of anything based upon logic but upon firings due to chemical reactions. I submit to you that man is rational and our rationality is beyond the natural order, in that it exists and is based on reality.

You're actually going to talk about rationality when your explanation for it all is your favorite god-myth?

Rationality comes from simple observation of fact, a trait apparent in many creatures from very early on in evolutionary development. The ability to know whether it is light or dark is observing fact, knowing that there is more prey during the day is observing fact, knowing that it is easier to see during the day is observable fact, deciding to hunt during the day is applied reason.

Even if you hate God or even the concept of Him

Sure, i hate any being who would have real and immediate power available to stop children dying of hunger and disease and not do a single thing about it.

it still doesn't matter, He loves you and sent His Son to die for you.

His son who only had to be dead for 3 days and then got to become the ruler of the universe? That is NOT a sacrifice, that is a fucking awesome deal.

Christ died for the holiest of the saints to the wickedest of the sinners, for Mother Teresa to Adolf Hitler. Christ sacrifice was so effective that if you repent and believe on Him, He will forgive you of any sin, whether lying, hate, anger, stealing, cheating, lust, pornography, or even murder.

So i can Murder, Lie, Cheat, Steal, Rape, Pillage and torture and just ask for forgiveness and i get a free ticket to heaven? Yet if i live a good life morally, don't commit crime or cause any intentional harm to others what so ever i don't because i don't believe in Jesus?

Where the fuck is your moral compass? No wonder so many sick, perverted people are religious! You give yourself permission to do whatever you want and feel eternally safe.

[Last_ Ray]

This stems from an old conversation with CoxRox (a former member, sadly missed) who eluded to the fact that whilst she believed in God she didn't expect an afterlife.

So.. The question is this.

If it were somehow proved to you beyond all doubt that when you died you simply ceased to exist with no hope of resurrection, ever, but the rest of your beliefs were correct, would you still bother doing all those things you do now, i.e. worship, study the bible/Qu'ran, go to church, glorify the lord etc. etc.?

Hello all
I know you missed me a lot , also I missed you a lot .
Our friend , made himself and his belief is the stable and trusted truth [ that there is no life after this life ] of course without a knowledge or a proof.

because he thinks : it is impossible that Allah is going to re-create human after death and collect body parts once again .truly before 1400 years the holy Quran has mentioned persons will say as his saying :
50. Then they will turn to one another and question one another.
51. One of them will start the talk and say: "I had an intimate companion (on the earth),
52. "Who used to say, 'what! art thou amongst those who bear witness to the Truth (of the Message)?
53. "'When we die and become dust and bones, shall we indeed receive rewards and punishments?'"
54. (A voice) said: "Would ye like to look down?"
55. He looked down and saw him in the midst of the Fire.
56. He said: "By Allah. thou wast little short of bringing me to perdition!
57. "Had it not been for the Grace of my Lord, I should certainly have been among those brought (there)!
58. "Is it (the case) that we shall not die,
59. "Except our first death, and that we shall not be punished?"
60. Verily this is the supreme achievement!
61. For the like of this let all strive, who wish to strive.
62. Is that the better entertainment or the Tree of Zaqqum?
63. For We have truly made it (as) a trial for the wrong-doers.
64. For it is a tree that springs out of the bottom of Hell-Fire:
65. The shoots of its fruit-stalks are like the heads of devils:
66. Truly they will eat thereof and fill their bellies therewith.
67. Then on top of that they will be given a mixture made of boiling water.
68. Then shall their return be to the (Blazing) Fire.
69. Truly they found their fathers on the wrong Path;
70. So they (too) were rushed down on their footsteps!

inshaa Allah by logic , we will prove it

[Darwinian]

This is not, in any shape or form, even coming close to what might, by a right minded and rational individual in control of logic, reason and a rudimentary understanding of the English language, be considered an answer to the question posed and quoted by yourself.

All you seem to see when you read the original post is an opportunity to further the influence of your superstitious ideology by simply preaching.

Please consider this an official warning. If you persist in this behaviour your membership will be affected accordingly.

Darwinian.

[Last_ Ray]

Please Darwinian , consider it by this way :

Yes , faiths and beliefs discussions are the hottest , but it does not means we must become an Enemies .even if we always are different in thoughts

Therefore please consider our discussions a friends discussions : If the truth with me or with you , let us hope the wrong person will follow him .

my regard

[leo-rcc]

inshaa Allah by logic , we will prove it

In what possible twisted viewpoint is the tripe you just posted even remotely similar to logic?

[Darwinian]

Please Darwinian , consider it by this way :

Yes , faiths and beliefs discussions are the hottest , but it does not means we must become an Enemies .even if we always are different in thoughts

Therefore please consider our discussions a friends discussions : If the truth with me or with you , let us hope the wrong person will follow him .

my regard

Then maintain the integrity of the thread by at least making an attempt to answer the original post.

[A897]

The simple answer to your question is yes because God is worthy of glory regardless of whether or not He has created us as beings that have eternal souls. God is still an infinite, just, and holy God and it is in His love and grace that He gives us eternal life.

We do not go to church to earn God's favor because God in being infinite can not be appeased and is not impressed with anything that I as a finite man can do. Church is a place of fellowship and to come and express worship to God. And the reason we strive, and are not perfect, to live righteous lives is because God tells us to be holy as He is holy.

Christ came and personally did for each of us. That is why we try not to do the very things for which he died to set us free of.

its just so sad that every religious person thinks his religion is the right one. You should see muslims how they fast and offer prayers with such dedication and are sure of god's blessings. If we accept that god do exists then will god torture people for their mere confusions?? he should be real cruel then!

[fr0d0]

Their confusion is torture enough

[solarwave]

I'ld have to say yes because Gods gift is also to help us in this life and have a relationship with us now.

But I have to agree with what rjh4. Jesus' resurrection was proof of His claims and since we have faith in Him we will be raised with Him. If Jesus wasn't raised then what He said wasn't true so nor is any of Christianity.

[leo-rcc]

Jesus' resurrection was proof of His claims and since we have faith in Him we will be raised with Him.

Assertion does not make fact.