Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?

[Creed of Heresy]

Yes, that is exactly what I said! Fucking hell, man. You just skipped over the fact that I was talking about persecution complexes there and not actual treatment. The part where I get to the treatment says in no way that addicts should be denied treatment.

Eh, good point.

Well, first you would have had to admit it was a choice. I have no idea how you managed to get off it without that. Maybe you just replaced it with something else. Who knows?

Well, all things considered, I do have a tendency towards addictive behavior. It's possible I have, thinking about it.

Did someone stick a needle in their arm at gun point? No? Choice. Why is that so offensive to you? I have had plenty of injuries that were my fault. I don't get all fucking uppity and blame it on "life" or "circumstances." It was my own dumb fault.

I'm not getting 'uppity.' I'm simply saying that people make bad decisions under duress, and you'd be surprised how many people on meth or H never knew anything about the dangers. And still don't. It's just making this particular decision can get you addicted to something that can and likely will either kill you or leave you a burnt-out husk of a human being. I'm not saying addicts don't blame themselves for their choices as much as I'm trying to say that the general attitude of "eh, who cares, fuck 'em" that comes from people is something that is extremely pervasive and, frankly, it's disgusting to me.

That's the age old excuse. "I need a drink because my boss is a dick." "I hit you because you drove me to it." "I need to blow another line so I can stay awake to study." It doesn't matter what the fucking excuse is. It's an excuse. For every addict, I'll find you another person who didn't make that choice under very similar circumstances. Still have no idea what the problem is with calling it a choice.

Right, because hitting someone and causing another physical harm is equatable to self-harm. The other two are valid, however. They are excuses, yes. It is true, the reasons given for it are choices, but again, they are choices made under duress, and bullfuckingshit you will by the way; this is starting to smack of you not knowing what the situation on the ground is, here...

I never said to reject them. Of course, I can see this is going to be one of those, "Ermagerd, you're not an enabler, so fuck you." conversations, anyway.

Quite a leap from what I'm saying to what you're insinuating my approach is...

It's funny how you can come from a history of addiction and abuse and still not want to pander to addiction while others want to pretend it just magically happens when you have a tough time of it. Suck it up, kiddos.

I'm not pandering to addiction. I'm not sure where you're getting that idea. Your growing belligerence is unwarranted and, frankly, your words are getting condescending, which is pretty obnoxious. If you're saying you have a history of abuse and addiction, which it seems you are, then saying that you think it doesn't just happen because you have a tough time of it...except it seems it did with you, if I'm reading your statement right. Which makes me wonder what in the name of the deepest layers of hell it is you're trying to say, cuz now I'm utterly baffled. You either are speaking from experience, and are reinforcing the point I'm making that duress has a strong impact on drug abuse, ergo addiction, or you are not, and are stating that because you did not, therefore anyone else who did make that choice was just weak.

Finally, Shell, if you weren't engaged to Tiberius, I'd tell you just what it is that you could suck up. Nothing stokes the contempt engine's flames like someone presuming to have authority of validation over my choices in context to my experiences. You're toeing a very personal line with me. I don't often say this kind of thing but I'll just go on record as saying this: Do not presume to have sufficient experience as to be qualified to tell me to 'suck it up' or not. I'm not joking. I'm not saying this lightly. This is a warning, and in case it wasn't intended, then just forget I am saying this, but don't presume to relate. I'm not going to say my experiences were worse or better than anyone else's, but at the same time, my choices were made in reaction to the way my life had played out, and we'll just leave it at that.

[là bạn điên]

Also, can I just say this? Growing up in several of the nastiest fucking slums in the country, I saw what heroin and coke did to people, but it hadn't spread so much out from where I lived in those days. I had thought that heroin had died off, replaced by meth, but instead it looks like it's just merely become even more available while having less awareness about it being circulated. Except now it's moving further into suburbs instead of the hood,
which makes sense. With so many peoples' lives starting to fall apart, it makes sense that such a numbing drug would start gaining in popularity amongst that demographic.

People in the burbs aren't just going to heroin though. The reason there is more heroin use there is a side effect of prescription pills. I know a few guys that started with perc 30s, but two of those will run you $50-60. It ends up being cheaper to switch to heroin, hence it becoming more popular again.

Thank god we have funding for prescriptions in the UK. All prescriptions are free for low waged or 12 dollars (worth) maximum.

[Jackalope]

People in the burbs aren't just going to heroin though. The reason there is more heroin use there is a side effect of prescription pills. I know a few guys that started with perc 30s, but two of those will run you $50-60. It ends up being cheaper to switch to heroin, hence it becoming more popular again.

Thank god we have funding for prescriptions in the UK. All prescriptions are free for low waged or 12 dollars (worth) maximum.

I believe he was referring to what they go for on the street.

[Shell B]

Haha, so now I'm belligerent and obnoxious. Have fun, Creed. I'm not exactly sure what you are threatening here, but you can say whatever the fuck you want to me. You went and made this completely personal out of nowhere. If you think I'm even remotely intimidated by that post, you're as stupid as you sound. Go fuck yourself, homey.

[EgoRaptor]

Should we shuffle all people who harm themselves due to controllable factors to the back of the line? Because, I don't ever want to be the person who makes that decision.

Yes, we should.

---

I've used opium before and certainly didn't feel addicted after limited use. I think the addiction after a single use thing is a myth created by war on drugs types.

Not to downplay your experience, but opium is quite weak compared to other drugs like heroin, especially if you're mainlining it. The single use addiction is very possible under the right circumstances, like the person having a genetic predisposition to addiction.

And I think that only people that have never made mistakes in their lives should be allowed to use the "you did it to yourself, so you don't deserve any help" argument.

No, but anyone who has not majorly fucked up & gotten addicted is sitting in a seat of judgement to those that have.

Also, you may notice I have bolded a part about people who are genetically predisposed to addiction. Let those weak individuals die off, the world will be a better place for it.

---

"Those poor oppressed people! It isn't like they did this to themselves or anything!" Are you serious? Irrational to not want to needle exchange dedicated to helping these people extend their addictions? I am 16 & I haven't smoked a single cig. People do this to themselves, and if it gets them killed then good riddance! The last thing we need is needle exchanges that encourage this sort of behavior. The best thing to do is just let them kill themselves. Rid ourselves of this filth!

So I'm filth?

---

Nice way to dodge addressing the argument. Why should the good taxpayer have to pay for a bunch of degenerate addicts?

And a degenerate?

---

Yeah. As my people say, "there, but for the grace of God, go I."

I imagine there is something analogous in Atheism.

Well not in atheism, nothing's really in atheism [literally], but amongst atheists, I imagine we do. I usually use whatever it was that kept me from not being in that situation.

---

I prefer Nietzschean individualism to petty compassion. What has altruism ever done but forced us to carry the weak?

Other than bring people out of desperate situations and elevate them so they may become working, functioning, productive members of society, thus benefiting the whole?

You use individualism, and then you use the plural "us."

Which is it? Forced YOU to carry the weak, personally? Or forced EVERYONE to carry the weak? If it's everyone, why do YOU care, Mister Individualism? Is the fraction of a penny your tax dollar, and everyone elses tax dollar, goes to towards providing medical assistance and rehabilitation facilities for people who overdose from a drug they could have taken for any number of reasons really something you're missing?

Wait, you're 16. You don't even pay any taxes. And you never smoked a cigarette, eh? Good for you, that'll go away in about five years when you're working, I imagine... Back to the topic at hand, though, when you've experienced the world for yourself, and not under the sheltered, pampered little existence your mommy and daddy provide for you, or IF you ever experience it, you'll begin to understand.

Until then, you'll have to forgive me for sneering in derisive contempt at your screen name and your posts when you say I am a lowlife and degenerate, because the hell, trials, and tribulations I've gone through and overcome make me far more of a man, far more worthy, far more powerful, far more respectable, far more resilient, and far more acutely aware of reality than you ever will be. Your warm, cozy little existence will leave you shivering in the howling cold that awaits you once you need to leave mommy and daddy's shelter, whereas I've not only gone past the part where I killed the wolf and wore its fur, I LOVE the biting, painful, bitter cold. It's my world, my home.

Who is truly the degenerate lowlife? The man who becomes addicted to a drug he took to numb the pain of a tortured life, survives a fatal dose of, overcomes, and eventually removes from his life in spite of the fact he is fighting against the tide? Or the child who passes judgment on others, an armchair moral authority, without having any insight or understanding to what his counterpart experiences?

I think we all know the answer. Don't we.

One giant ad hom. Nice job man. I especially liked the whole woe is me thing. Also, I have suffered from depression my whole life, and I haven't taken a single cigarette. People like you are everything that is wrong with this world. Weak & expecting everyone else to take the blame for you mistakes. Suck it up.

I care that the strong are forced to carry the weak because I don't want a society held back by the meek. The strong should not have to carry the weak, if the weak cannot carry themselves than let them fall.

---

So you're saying that because I took heroin at the age of 13 through 14 in a blind, wild attempt to try to numb myself to the memories of being raped a couple dozen times, and became addicted to it, I should be denied treatment because people who have been affected through no fault of their own don't get any either, even though the cost of doing so is not even the tiniest fraction of what it takes to perform a cancer operation. Basically I should've just had to live up to my choice, eh? Tough cookies, I'm responsible for myself, believing I deserved treatment like any other person suffering and slowly dying because I made a decision that could have been because of a million factors, many of which are not particularly pleasant? Who are you to say whether or not someone is addicted by their choice alone? Do you factor in the contexts in which someone became addicted? How do you selectively identify the ones who were driven into it by circumstance from the ones who were just stupid? Or do you just reject them all, nevermind that life fucks someone over severely enough they fall to that low and that treating it is far less costly than treating a cancer patient? In fact, treating addicts is actually beneficial to society.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/pr...h-its-cost

According to several conservative estimates, every dollar invested in addiction treatment programs yields a return of between $4 and $7 in reduced drug-related crime, criminal justice costs, and theft. When savings related to healthcare are included, total savings can exceed costs by a ratio of 12 to 1. Major savings to the individual and to society also stem from fewer interpersonal conflicts; greater workplace productivity; and fewer drug-related accidents, including overdoses and deaths.

You know what works even better? Letting them die. That saves a lot more money.

Notice the bolded part, ya that is exactly what I am saying. Suck it up!

[Jacob(smooth)]

Also, I have suffered from depression my whole life, and I haven't taken a single cigarette.

You're what, 16? And you've so far managed to avoid smoking a single cigarette?

Man, that's fucking inspirational. You make me want to be a better man. You should write a book about your struggle through the bleak years of bad Pokemon swaps and your playstation crashing.

Fuck, I'm filling up just thinking about it...

[EgoRaptor]

Also, I have suffered from depression my whole life, and I haven't taken a single cigarette.

You're what, 16? And you've so far managed to avoid smoking a single cigarette?

Man, that's fucking inspirational. You make me want to be a better man. You should write a book about your struggle through the bleak years of bad Pokemon swaps and your playstation crashing.

Fuck, I'm filling up just thinking about it...

Look, at least I don't go around blaming other people & demanding that they pay to make me feel better.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Also, you may notice I have bolded a part about people who are genetically predisposed to addiction. Let those weak individuals die off, the world will be a better place for it.

Oh and word of advice. When you're all grown up and talking to people in real life, outside the playground, you might want to think carefully about who you express that opinion too. It's possible you have a genetic predisposition to saying stuff that gets your head kicked in.

Could be epigenetic. Not sure.

[Nine]

Also, I have suffered from depression my whole life, and I haven't taken a single cigarette.

You're what, 16? And you've so far managed to avoid smoking a single cigarette?

Man, that's fucking inspirational. You make me want to be a better man. You should write a book about your struggle through the bleak years of bad Pokemon swaps and your playstation crashing.

Fuck, I'm filling up just thinking about it...

---

---

---

You should write a book about your struggle through the bleak years of bad Pokemon swaps and your playstation crashing.

I was a bad-ass when it came to Pokemon swapping. My collection was beast. I started with a small collection of commons and worked my way to owning all the best cards on the playground.

I should be a salesman.

[Jacob(smooth)]

I was a bad-ass when it came to Pokemon swapping. My collection was beast. I started with a small collection of commons and worked my way to owning all the best cards on the playground.

I should be a salesman.

It was Magic the Gathering when I was at college. I, too, was bad ass.

However, there were... dark times. Real dark. There was a time I swapped a baron sengir for a shivan dragon, not knowing... not knowing my black deck would never recover. I... I still find it hard to talk about. And then I went home and it was curry for dinner. CURRY!!! You can't imagine the pain.

But I was strong! I pushed through! And I never, NEVER turned to drugs. Which totally means I can sit in judgement on people who lost children, or saw horrific things in war and couldn't adjust, or were raped and abused by people before they could understand what was even happening. Because its totally the same thing.