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An atheists guide to reality
#31
RE: An atheists guide to reality
Quote:Life have objective meaning (a point as you say) has huge implications on how we view things, intrinsic worth of human beings, equality, value of life etc, thats why it is so important, athesim paves the way for euthanasia, abortion, sexual promiscuity etc in some cases even infanticide has been proposed. So life having "a point" has huge moral implications.

Erm - no, in a word.

Ultimate meaning in the grand scheme of things is not relevant to any of the above. All we need is an inherited tendency to empathy, reciprocation and a sense of fairness and rightness to get along just fine.

All things gain meaning from our interactions with others on the planet. Evolution rewards those that cooperate with others and the above values, inherited from our forebears allow this to happen.

It is that which dictates our value systems - in conjunction with the society we live in. This allows for exactly what we see in morality across the world's societies. Common elements - provisions against murder, provisions to protect one's property and so on whilst other issues - women's rights, other sexual orientations, race and so on vary from one society to another.

The combination is no less innately valuable than would be a decreed value system from a third party. In fact, I would argue, it is more meaningful.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
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#32
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 2, 2014 at 2:26 pm)StatCrux Wrote: I think everyone is missing what I'm actually saying, I'm not saying that atheists don't believe or have any meaning in their lives, I'm saying its logically inconsistent with atheism. If we are simply whizzing through space destined to nothingness, nothing we do here on earth has any real meaning, we may think it has meaning but that is different from actually having any meaning.

I don't think its the only position an atheist can hold, I think its the only logically consistent one.

Life have objective meaning (a point as you say) has huge implications on how we view things, intrinsic worth of human beings, equality, value of life etc, thats why it is so important, athesim paves the way for euthanasia, abortion, sexual promiscuity etc in some cases even infanticide has been proposed. So life having "a point" has huge moral implications.
So, to be clear.

These here atheists THINK their lives have meaning... but that they are wrong.

Because this guy who wrote the book, and you, think that "meaning" means something different to what THEY think it means. And you and he are more authoritative commentators on what constitutes meaning than anyone else.

You think your life has meaning, and you're right.
They think their lives have meaning, and they're wrong.

Is that really the message you've come with?

Everybody, thank the nice Christian for telling you that any meaning you think you may have found in life is in fact NOT meaningful.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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#33
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 2, 2014 at 2:33 pm)Alex K Wrote:
(March 2, 2014 at 2:26 pm)StatCrux Wrote: I think everyone is missing what I'm actually saying, I'm not saying that atheists don't believe or have any meaning in their lives, I'm saying its logically inconsistent with atheism.

Logic... you keep using that word...

He should totally say how he thinks that is logical, and while he is at it also explain how maintaining a belief for which you have no compelling evidence logically leads to a meaningful life.
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#34
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 2, 2014 at 2:33 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Okay, listen to me, very closely. Are you paying attention? 'Cause here goes:

Why is the meaning we have logically inconsistent with atheism? In what way is our meaning different from an objective one?

OK, lets stick to this one point of contention, no asking for evidence of Gods existence or other red herrings

Simple question, Is life is simply the chance combination of matter and destined ultimately for decay and nothingness?

I want to establish something we can agree that atheists believe.
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#35
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 2, 2014 at 2:33 pm)StatCrux Wrote: No, I wasn't asked to demonstrate the substance of the argument, I was asked to provide evidence for the existence of God, which has nothing to do with the argument, as I stated, if you had bothered to read the thread.

Perhaps you should pull your head from your ass before shooting your mouth off about who has read what.

Esquillax Wrote:And you're still begging the question, because the only way you could phrase my lack of objective meaning as a bad thing is if you can A: present me with evidence of some real objective meaning that I'm missing out on due to my current worldview, and B: demonstrate that this objective meaning actually confers a benefit.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#36
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 2, 2014 at 2:36 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: So, to be clear.

These here atheists THINK they have meaning... but that they are wrong.

Because this guy who wrote the book, and you, think that "meaning" means something different to what THEY think it means.

You think your life has meaning, and you're right.
They think their lives have meaning, and they're wrong.

Everybody, thank the nice Christian for telling you that any meaning you think you may have found in life is in fact NOT meaningful.

Now Jacob. Be fair. He didn't really challenge the bona fides of what meaning we think we have. He merely wishes to point out that logic is all we have and we've misapplied it.

I can't begin to say how grateful I am. Dodgy
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#37
RE: An atheists guide to reality
Oh I see what he is saying. And I agree, why bother eating food, you're just going to shit it out later! lol
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain

'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House

“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom

"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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#38
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 2, 2014 at 2:40 pm)StatCrux Wrote: I want to establish something we can agree that atheists believe.

I got one

[Image: 7Pgyppb.gif]

Quote: Is life is simply the chance combination of matter and destined ultimately for decay and nothingness?

No.

They don't believe that. they really don't. Not the first bit anyway.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
Reply
#39
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 2, 2014 at 2:36 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: So, to be clear.

These here atheists THINK their lives have meaning... but that they are wrong.

Because this guy who wrote the book, and you, think that "meaning" means something different to what THEY think it means. And you and he are more authoritative commentators on what constitutes meaning than anyone else.

You think your life has meaning, and you're right.
They think their lives have meaning, and they're wrong.

Is that really the message you've come with?

Everybody, thank the nice Christian for telling you that any meaning you think you may have found in life is in fact NOT meaningful.

No, that isn't my position, my argument is that our lives have meaning including atheists and they are fully aware it it, its just not logically consistent with atheism, so what I'm saying is that our personal experience of meaning in life is testament to the fact that there is purpose and meaning
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#40
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 2, 2014 at 2:40 pm)StatCrux Wrote: Simple question, Is life is simply the chance combination of matter and destined ultimately for decay and nothingness?

Absolutely not. A physical description of the phenomenon does not exhaust it.

I know this must be hard for you but we also have poetry and rainbows and love and snuggles even without God.
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