An atheists guide to reality

[StatCrux]

Individually and socially determined meaning is still meaning, it's not invalid because some other people decided to label theirs extra special and omniscient. A lake has no intentionality either, that doesn't sap all the joy out of swimming in it.

You're trying to erect a problem where there isn't one.

Its not meaning in the sense of having any purpose. Swimming in a lake may be a pleasant sensation, it doesn't give it meaning. Sensual gratification is not meaning. I don't think you're understanding the full implications of athesim, you can create "your own meaning" but that is not objective meaning, ultimately the atheist has to create false meaning whilst having to admit there is no "real meaning" in life. This seems to be absurd logically.

---

You have obviously confused us with people who give a flying fuck what you think.

And you must be the self appointed voice of collective atheism..

likewise I think you have confused me of someone who cares what you might think (notice I speak only for myself)

[Mr. Moncrieff]

When Christians all start admitting that they are focusing their one existence on worshipping a figment of their primeval fear.

A guy in the sky who made them purely because he wanted attention and validation?

A supreme being so understanding of the human inadequacies he imbued, that he would condemn them in a heartbeat for daring to question him?

When that happens.

Ah, is this where you get to tell me what I believe? Sky daddy, cannibalism and all other such intellectual pearls of wisdom..

You've just done the same to me.

Hypocrisy is a double edged sword.

Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house...

[Esquilax]

Its not meaning in the sense of having any purpose. Swimming in a lake may be a pleasant sensation, it doesn't give it meaning. Sensual gratification is not meaning. I don't think you're understanding the full implications of athesim, you can create "your own meaning" but that is not objective meaning, ultimately the atheist has to create false meaning whilst having to admit there is no "real meaning" in life. This seems to be absurd logically.

And you're still begging the question, because the only way you could phrase my lack of objective meaning as a bad thing is if you can A: present me with evidence of some real objective meaning that I'm missing out on due to my current worldview, and B: demonstrate that this objective meaning actually confers a benefit. Without any of that, all this is, is me having to listen to you playing make believe and telling me how great your super special ultra meaning is, as if the product of your imagination should somehow make me jealous.

Just putting the word "premium" on the chocolate box doesn't make the stuff inside taste any better, dude.

Besides, just reducing my position to "sensory experience" is kind of inaccurate: I've got plenty of things going on in my life, creatively, emotionally and intellectually, that are plenty meaningful, and so far your position is just "that's not good enough," without ever explaining why. What measure do you have by which you can judge the meaning I derive from my life lesser than yours, other than that the voice in your head puffs itself up to be so important that you just feel like anyone not listening to it is lesser?

What do you actually have, other than bare assertions that my position is inferior because magic man?

Oh, and also? "Seems to be absurd logically" is an argument from personal incredulity.

[StatCrux]

Ah, is this where you get to tell me what I believe? Sky daddy, cannibalism and all other such intellectual pearls of wisdom..

You've just done the same to me.

Hypocrisy is a double edged sword.

Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house...

No, I commented on a book in which the author agrees with myself that atheism when taken to its logical conclusion ends in nihilism. So you can either agree or argue logically why it doesn't. Simply stating that I believe in a man in the sky doesn't address the argument and is erecting a straw man.

[Alex K]

. I don't think you're understanding the full implications of athesim,

You think you just got some devastating insight that we must obviously have missed about our own worldview, it would be hilarious if it weren't so insulting. Dude I grappled with those deep problems when I was 14.

you can create "your own meaning" but that is not objective meaning, ultimately the atheist has to create false meaning whilst having to admit there is no "real meaning" in life.

Erm, you do realize that from an atheist perspective, that is precisely what you are doing, right?

This seems to be absurd logically.

Logical absurdity, huh.
Is that even a thing?

[Mr. Moncrieff]

You've just done the same to me.

Hypocrisy is a double edged sword.

Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house...

No, I commented on a book in which the author agrees with myself that atheism when taken to its logical conclusion ends in nihilism. So you can either agree or argue logically why it doesn't. Simply stating that I believe in a man in the sky doesn't address the argument and is erecting a straw man.

Actually, without explicit reference, I proposed the argument of parsimony (using Occam's razor) which largely contends that since natural theories adequately explain the development of religion and belief in God's, both the claim of existence and the actual existence of such supernatural agents is superfluous and may be dismissed unless otherwise proven to be required to explain the phenomenon.

I dismiss those claims as being superfluous. That doesn't remove meaning from my life.

If I had never sought meaning, would I have exposed myself to as many possible truths, philosophies, interpretations and theologies as I have?

Don't ever tell me that my life doesn't have meaning.

My children are my meaning; my wife is my meaning. I want to breathe in and out every possible second of this existence to spend that time with them. My meaning is their joy, their happiness, their contentment, their comfort.

As an Atheist, I have EVERYTHING to live for.

[StatCrux]

And you're still begging the question, because the only way you could phrase my lack of objective meaning as a bad thing is if you can A: present me with evidence of some real objective meaning that I'm missing out on due to my current worldview, and B: demonstrate that this objective meaning actually confers a benefit. Without any of that, all this is, is me having to listen to you playing make believe and telling me how great your super special ultra meaning is, as if the product of your imagination should somehow make me jealous.

Just putting the word "premium" on the chocolate box doesn't make the stuff inside taste any better, dude.

Besides, just reducing my position to "sensory experience" is kind of inaccurate: I've got plenty of things going on in my life, creatively, emotionally and intellectually, that are plenty meaningful, and so far your position is just "that's not good enough," without ever explaining why. What measure do you have by which you can judge the meaning I derive from my life lesser than yours, other than that the voice in your head puffs itself up to be so important that you just feel like anyone not listening to it is lesser?

What do you actually have, other than bare assertions that my position is inferior because magic man?

Oh, and also? "Seems to be absurd logically" is an argument from personal incredulity.

Yep, you're definitely not getting the point. I don't need to provide evidence of any kind, I'm not trying to prove God exists. What I am saying is that if atheism is true then ultimately there is no meaning in life. We may "think" our lives have meaning and I'm sure most people do, it's whether this belief we have is true or not. So the focus is not on what I believe, but how atheists can logically claim meaning in life other than an imaginary one which they have created. Have you even looked at Rosenbergs book? He is an atheist and he wants atheists to face up to this problem.

[Jacob(smooth)]

[Esquilax]

Yep, you're definitely not getting the point. I don't need to provide evidence of any kind, I'm not trying to prove God exists. What I am saying is that if atheism is true then ultimately there is no meaning in life. We may "think" our lives have meaning and I'm sure most people do, it's whether this belief we have is true or not. So the focus is not on what I believe, but how atheists can logically claim meaning in life other than an imaginary one which they have created. Have you even looked at Rosenbergs book? He is an atheist and he wants atheists to face up to this problem.

And my point is that your problem of objective meaning doesn't exist in a world without a god, because without that objective meaning then the meaning we create is all there is, because we are all there is. There's nothing around to subvert that; you keep saying that the meaning I make for myself is imaginary, but you've made no effort to explain why, or justify that at all. You're just... saying it.

You can imagine why I'd find that less than compelling.

My family is real. My writing is real. My mind is real, the actions I take are real, the people around me are real, and the satisfaction I gain from all of that and more is also real. There's nothing imaginary about any of that, nor is it all diminished just because the universe it takes place in has no externally defined meaning. Why would it be?

That's what I'm saying; you're attempting to cram a problem into my worldview without adequately defining so much as what that problem even is, let alone why I should believe it exists at all. What is it you're actually saying? What's so logically absurd about the notion that my internally imposed meaning is sufficient for a non-nihilistic outlook?

[Alex K]

And you're still begging the question, because the only way you could phrase my lack of objective meaning as a bad thing is if you can A: present me with evidence of some real objective meaning that I'm missing out on due to my current worldview, and B: demonstrate that this objective meaning actually confers a benefit. Without any of that, all this is, is me having to listen to you playing make believe and telling me how great your super special ultra meaning is, as if the product of your imagination should somehow make me jealous.

Just putting the word "premium" on the chocolate box doesn't make the stuff inside taste any better, dude.

Besides, just reducing my position to "sensory experience" is kind of inaccurate: I've got plenty of things going on in my life, creatively, emotionally and intellectually, that are plenty meaningful, and so far your position is just "that's not good enough," without ever explaining why. What measure do you have by which you can judge the meaning I derive from my life lesser than yours, other than that the voice in your head puffs itself up to be so important that you just feel like anyone not listening to it is lesser?

What do you actually have, other than bare assertions that my position is inferior because magic man?

Oh, and also? "Seems to be absurd logically" is an argument from personal incredulity.

Yep, you're definitely not getting the point. I don't need to provide evidence of any kind, I'm not trying to prove God exists. What I am saying is that if atheism is true then ultimately there is no meaning in life. We may "think" our lives have meaning and I'm sure most people do, it's whether this belief we have is true or not. So the focus is not on what I believe, but how atheists can logically claim meaning in life other than an imaginary one which they have created. Have you even looked at Rosenbergs book? He is an atheist and he wants atheists to face up to this problem.

Blablabla. You know, you could simply have asked anyone here whether and how they deal with this "problem". You haven't uncovered a great secret that we dont face or something. If you want to talk about your inability to live a fulfilling life without external determination of purpose, there are sure people here who will gladly like to help you. but not with that attitude...