Why do Christians trust YHWH?

[fr0d0]

1. Killing isn't unlawful. Murder is. Secular law, you're right, changes what is acceptable to be right and wrong all the time. We do our best to be ethically correct. Obviously we can't always be right.

2. Everything is always up for debate. Judges would be out of a job otherwise. Yes I'd agree that what God says has to match what we observe. That's how it works for me.

[smax]

There is no more selective reasoning than that of a Christian who believes that god will ultimately act in their interests. In believing this, one must ignore:

the flood,
the conquest of Canaan,
the fall of Satan and a third of the angels,
the casting down of Satan to Earth,
Moses' banishment from the promised land,

and countless other things.

If the god of the bible does exist, he certainly isn't bound to his alleged word or any "promises", and certainly doesn't hold human beings in general with any caring regard.

And, even if the god of the bible were prepared to honor some promise of eternal life, it's clear that the fulfillment of that promise would be one of insignificant and robotic repetition, praising his "holy name" forever and ever and ever.

Fun stuff!

[microxone]

he killed so many people in the OT. I will never trust god of the bible if he does exist.

[fr0d0]

If killing was the right thing to do, would you still hate God for it?

[Tonus]

So, Christians: how can you trust God?

I think that for many Christians, god is initially defined as the epitome of positive traits. God doesn't just love, god IS love. He is merciful and just, he only wants what is good for us, he would do anything if we only asked, he is a kind and generous father.

When you get to the parts that counter that image, you automatically reject it and seek out explanations. If those won't do, then it's on to the rationalizations, even though the end result of those is to create a being who has every right to treat you however he so wishes, and displays the willingness to turn your life into a nightmare because he damn well wanted to. I wonder if Job, after his family and fortune had been restored (well, with the exception of his first ten children and all of his servants and helpers who had been brutally slaughtered) ever had a good night's sleep after what he went through, knowing that god had allowed his life to be ripped apart and was angry with Job for just wanting to know why.

I bet Job trusted Yahweh... before.

[Chad32]

If killing was the right thing to do, would you still hate God for it?

I wouldn't hate anyone who killed someone, if I thought they had a really good reason for it. For me, it's not that he killed people. It's why he killed people. "Because they aren't worshiping me enough" is not a good reason to wipe out whole tribes and such. Especially if you want to come off as a god of justice, mercy, and love.

[Lek]

So, Christians: how can you trust God?

I think that for many Christians, god is initially defined as the epitome of positive traits. God doesn't just love, god IS love. He is merciful and just, he only wants what is good for us, he would do anything if we only asked, he is a kind and generous father.

When you get to the parts that counter that image, you automatically reject it and seek out explanations. If those won't do, then it's on to the rationalizations, even though the end result of those is to create a being who has every right to treat you however he so wishes, and displays the willingness to turn your life into a nightmare because he damn well wanted to. I wonder if Job, after his family and fortune had been restored (well, with the exception of his first ten children and all of his servants and helpers who had been brutally slaughtered) ever had a good night's sleep after what he went through, knowing that god had allowed his life to be ripped apart and was angry with Job for just wanting to know why.

I bet Job trusted Yahweh... before.

You guys don't get it. We do suffer here. If you look around it's mostly all caused by human beings inflicting it on each other. God has done things that made people experience pain, as they were living in this world of suffering. If Job is with God now in eternal bliss, do you think that he cares about how much he suffered during his time on earth? The suffering God inflicted on us he also inflicted on his son. The people he killed were killed quickly, but his son died a slow and agonizing death for us so that we wouldn't have to suffer after our lives here. That's how he showed his love for us. He gave us the choice to be with him or not and, for those who want to be with him he gave a pathway. For those who don't want to be with him, he allows a future without him. He allows us to make our own choices and doesn't force us to follow him. We don't know what hell is except that it is without God's influence and that it's not a great place. The reason that hell is a terrible place is the absence of God. How can you say that God is not loving?

[truthBtold]

I think that for many Christians, god is initially defined as the epitome of positive traits. God doesn't just love, god IS love. He is merciful and just, he only wants what is good for us, he would do anything if we only asked, he is a kind and generous father.

When you get to the parts that counter that image, you automatically reject it and seek out explanations. If those won't do, then it's on to the rationalizations, even though the end result of those is to create a being who has every right to treat you however he so wishes, and displays the willingness to turn your life into a nightmare because he damn well wanted to. I wonder if Job, after his family and fortune had been restored (well, with the exception of his first ten children and all of his servants and helpers who had been brutally slaughtered) ever had a good night's sleep after what he went through, knowing that god had allowed his life to be ripped apart and was angry with Job for just wanting to know why.

I bet Job trusted Yahweh... before.

You guys don't get it. We do suffer here. If you look around it's mostly all caused by human beings inflicting it on each other. God has done things that made people experience pain, as they were living in this world of suffering. If Job is with God now in eternal bliss, do you think that he cares about how much he suffered during his time on earth? The suffering God inflicted on us he also inflicted on his son. The people he killed were killed quickly, but his son died a slow and agonizing death for us so that we wouldn't have to suffer after our lives here. That's how he showed his love for us. He gave us the choice to be with him or not and, for those who want to be with him he gave a pathway. For those who don't want to be with him, he allows a future without him. He allows us to make our own choices and doesn't force us to follow him. We don't know what hell is except that it is without God's influence and that it's not a great place. The reason that hell is a terrible place is the absence of God. How can you say that God is not loving?

Ooooh. Leak.. listen.. I had more suffering getting circumcised, and I dont even remember it.. u wanna beat me to a bloody pulp and after I get to hang out in this place called heaven next to the guy with the white hair playing pocket pool all day (cause he aint doing his job)... well then lets have at it..

[Chad32]

You guys don't get it. We do suffer here. If you look around it's mostly all caused by human beings inflicting it on each other. God has done things that made people experience pain, as they were living in this world of suffering. If Job is with God now in eternal bliss, do you think that he cares about how much he suffered during his time on earth? The suffering God inflicted on us he also inflicted on his son. The people he killed were killed quickly, but his son died a slow and agonizing death for us so that we wouldn't have to suffer after our lives here. That's how he showed his love for us. He gave us the choice to be with him or not and, for those who want to be with him he gave a pathway. For those who don't want to be with him, he allows a future without him. He allows us to make our own choices and doesn't force us to follow him. We don't know what hell is except that it is without God's influence and that it's not a great place. The reason that hell is a terrible place is the absence of God. How can you say that God is not loving?

Do you think him actually doing it to his child actually makes it better? We don't know anything about Yahweh, heaven, hell, souls, or anything because we can't even prove they exist. Some people suffer more than others. I don't know anything about "eternal bliss" in heaven, or if I'll even be me in heaven. If I gave myself to Jesus, how much of me would he have to change in order for me to continually worship the individual portrayed in the bible? My estimate would be a lot.

You get your ideas about Yahweh/Jesus, heaven, and hell from followers of the bible, so it's obvious that this is biased. At least this world is something we know, and people tend to suffer more or less than others, regardless of who they worship if any.

[Lek]

Ok. That's the great thing about it - we're not forced to follow him or to believe in him. I'm going with him based on my own experience with him and the experiences of fellow believers.