Why do Christians trust YHWH?

[fr0d0]

I didn't have anything specific in mind lol

So your question is "if killing in general were morally right, would we be angry about it?". It's a rather odd question. Before I can answer it, I need to know why killing is morally right.

No... killing is not murder. We kill animals, ants, etc etc.

Ethically those things can be questionable. I'm saying if it wasn't in doubt...

[RobbyPants]

No... killing is not murder. We kill animals, ants, etc etc.

Ethically those things can be questionable. I'm saying if it wasn't in doubt...

Okay, I'm responding to this question you asked: "If killing was the right thing to do, would you still hate God for it?"

I need to know why it's not in doubt. If you're saying "It's not in doubt because I say so" without providing any reason, then you're basically defining killing to be okay and asking me if I'm okay with killing. I guess under these assumptions, I would tautologically have to be okay with killing. That being said, I'm not sure what the point of the question is or how it pertains to the discussion.

You could similarly ask me "If your silver car were blue, would it be blue?" and my answer would be "yes", but I fail to see how that impacts my silver car in real life.

Where are you going with this?

[Tonus]

Secondly, I read what Jesus taught and I see how the world works when it's full of people who ignore those teachings. I'm also agreeing that christians are notorious for disregarding Jesus, so we don't need to do the blame game here.

A person who "disregards" Jesus isn't a Christian, IMO. But we should clear some things up here, I think. Christians here will occasionally point to the large number of Christians that there are today, implying (if not outright stating) that such a large number of people can't possibly be wrong. But it doesn't take much to get Christians to play the "no true Christian" game when the behavior of those many are called into question. To say nothing of the fact that many Christian denominations insist that they are the only true Christians and that the other hundreds of millions are not.

This dichotomy is bad enough, but the waters are pretty muddy. Where is the line that separates the true Christian from the rest? Pretty much every Christian will admit that humans are fallen creatures dependent on god's mercy and that we do not deserve salvation on our own merit because we are slaves to sin. Thus, every Christian does "unChristian" things. How do we sort out which of those 2.1 billion Christians "count" and which do not?

[fr0d0]

Hi RobbyPants

Let's go back to the original context....

he killed so many people in the OT. I will never trust god of the bible if he does exist.

If killing was the right thing to do, would you still hate God for it?

I'm referencing the assumption that when God killed in the OT that it was immoral.

I'm stepping back from that a little, and asking if in other circumstances, you knew Gods act of killing was indeed just, for whatever reason, would you still hate him?

To the best of my understanding and from the original text, the Jews defined God as good and just. They're not depicting an evil act here. They're depicting justice observed. We might find the language and the culture tough to take. We're not supposed to be judging that culture on this (current culture), but understanding the point the authors are making from their perspective.

[The Valkyrie]

If they don't many believe they'll be punished.

[truthBtold]

So your question is "if killing in general were morally right, would we be angry about it?". It's a rather odd question. Before I can answer it, I need to know why killing is morally right.

No... killing is not murder. We kill animals, ants, etc etc.

Ethically those things can be questionable. I'm saying if it wasn't in doubt...

Shh. We dont kill animals... we put them to sleep forever.. da!!

[Simon Moon]

I'm referencing the assumption that when God killed in the OT that it was immoral.

The only morality I am able to use to judge is my own. And from my own morality,Yahweh as depicted in the Bible, is immoral.

If he existed, and if the Bible is an accurate depiction of his nature and his
actions, then he'd have to give a complete accounting of why his actions were moral.

And no, 'divine command' is not a good justification for his actions.

I'm stepping back from that a little, and asking if in other circumstances, you knew Gods act of killing was indeed just, for whatever reason, would you still hate him?

Oh please! No one here 'hates' the Biblical god character.

If there were other circumstances that could justify the actions depicted in the Bible, it would be up to Yahweh to explain them.

But the really sad thing is, that your beliefs have caused you to sacrifice your own humanity to defend the actions of Yahweh. Your responses seem to take the form, "I believe that God is good and just, therefore his actions must also be good and just". Your logic is circular.

To the best of my understanding and from the original text, the Jews defined God as good and just. They're not depicting an evil act here. They're depicting justice observed. We might find the language and the culture tough to take. We're not supposed to be judging that culture on this (current culture), but understanding the point the authors are making from their perspective.

So, because Hebrews were themselves Bronze Age barbarian thugs, they are fine depicting their god as just an extreme version of their own behavior. Got it.

[fr0d0]

Your own, fashionable morality Simon, just as theirs was. You need to look at the bigger picture.

I'm responding to microxones' personal response to God.

The original meaning was that God is just. You call it unjust by deliberately misconstruing it. If we're simply addressing an accurate translation of the original text, that it's not circular.

Yes, you must read ancient text in context to be honest.

[RobbyPants]

Hi RobbyPants

Let's go back to the original context....

he killed so many people in the OT. I will never trust god of the bible if he does exist.

If killing was the right thing to do, would you still hate God for it?

I'm referencing the assumption that when God killed in the OT that it was immoral.

I'm stepping back from that a little, and asking if in other circumstances, you knew Gods act of killing was indeed just, for whatever reason, would you still hate him?

To the best of my understanding and from the original text, the Jews defined God as good and just. They're not depicting an evil act here. They're depicting justice observed. We might find the language and the culture tough to take. We're not supposed to be judging that culture on this (current culture), but understanding the point the authors are making from their perspective.

If we define the killings as moral and just, then they would be tautologically moral and just, and I wouldn't be offended by them. I don't think microxone was making that assumption, though.

That being said, there are quite a few killings in the Bible that I cannot see as moral or just in any workable framework.

[Esquilax]

The original meaning was that God is just. You call it unjust by deliberately misconstruing it. If we're simply addressing an accurate translation of the original text, that it's not circular.

This is a fairly common response to charges of divine immorality, and I think it misses the point; the original claim is that god is just, not the original meaning. We're presented with an account, in the bible, that we can use as evidence to evaluate the claims about the character of god, namely that his actions were just. When a person says that god is immoral, that doesn't mean they're misconstruing the text, it just means that they aren't taking the claim as- pardon the pun- gospel.

What we're saying is that the claim and the evidence we're presented don't match up; the bible has an unreliable narrator.