Hai! Ex muslim atheist from indonesia here! :)

[Minimalist]

I hope the Indonesian thought police didn't track down Murtaddin and throw rocks at hm.

Islam sure as shit does not mean "tolerant."

[rhn2704]

It is Not OK to hurt Non muslims.It is against the teachings of Islam.Maybe You have some misunderstandings or probably lack of knowledge about Islam.

The word Islam means "Peace" and a Muslim means the one who submits his will to Allah.

So all the bits in the Quran that say to kill the unbelievers aren't really there then?

Btw, Islam actually means "submit" not "peace".

And that was stated by a Muslim on this very forum.

Islam comes from the root word "Salaam" which means Peace.

Whenever a Muslim meets another Muslim.He first greets him by saying "Assalamualikum" which roughly means May Peace be unto you.

Regarding your main doubt please read below :-

Misquoted Verse #6
"And slay them wherever ye catch them.." [Noble Quran 2:191]

A classic and popular example of what Muslim scholars, like Dr. Jamal Badawi, call a 'cut and paste' approach. Everything becomes so much easier for the Anti-Islamists when they remove the context. The solution for the Muslim is to simply replace the verse in its context:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]

Hope it clears your doubt.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

So all the bits in the Quran that say to kill the unbelievers aren't really there then?

Btw, Islam actually means "submit" not "peace".

And that was stated by a Muslim on this very forum.

Islam comes from the root word "Salaam" which means Peace.

Whenever a Muslim meets another Muslim.He first greets him by saying "Assalamualikum" which roughly means May Peace be unto you.

Actions speak louder than words.

I think it would be polite of you to stop copy and pasting the same apologetics passage from your favorite apologist in every thread you post in, though.

Consider starting your own thread to discuss, if you really want to.

[rhn2704]

Islam comes from the root word "Salaam" which means Peace.

Whenever a Muslim meets another Muslim.He first greets him by saying "Assalamualikum" which roughly means May Peace be unto you.

Actions speak louder than words.

I think it would be polite of you to stop copy and pasting the same apologetics passage from your favorite apologist in every thread you post in, though.

Consider starting your own thread to discuss, if you really want to.

I am just trying to clear the misconceptions about Islam.

You said Actions speak Louder than Words.Yes you are right.

There about 1.5 billion muslims in the world today.If majority of us believed in Violence and slaying innocent people.

You could imagine what would be the scenario in the world today.

We Muslims are not the people who cause the World Wars.

We are also not the people who dropped Atom bombs in Japan.

Also if any terrorist goes blows up himself in the name of Islam.Then without any doubt he had wrong knowledge about the teachings of Islam and there will be Justice with God.

[Marsellus Wallace]

There about 1.5 billion muslims in the world today.If majority of us believed in Violence and slaying innocent people.

You could imagine what would be the scenario in the world today.

The only reason that the muslims can't do more damage, is that they can't .

We Muslims are not the people who cause the World Wars.

shut up

We are also not the people who dropped Atom bombs in Japan.

well, yeah . They didn't start the WWII either, but that is not related ...

Also if any terrorist goes blows up himself in the name of Islam.Then without any doubt he had wrong knowledge about the teachings of Islam and there will be Justice with God.

The same old argument. If they did bad, then they're not one of us.
Also lets call them the "not true muslims" and say that they didn't understand the religion very well .

you nailed it .

[rhn2704]

There about 1.5 billion muslims in the world today.If majority of us believed in Violence and slaying innocent people.

You could imagine what would be the scenario in the world today.

The only reason that the muslims can't do more damage, is that they can't .

We Muslims are not the people who cause the World Wars.

shut up

We are also not the people who dropped Atom bombs in Japan.

well, yeah . They didn't start the WWII either, but that is not related ...

Also if any terrorist goes blows up himself in the name of Islam.Then without any doubt he had wrong knowledge about the teachings of Islam and there will be Justice with God.

The same old argument. If they did bad, then they're not one of us.
Also lets call them the "not true muslims" and say that they didn't understand the religion very well .

you nailed it .

Do you want to say that We Muslims believe in Violence?

Guess what no matter how many verses I show you from Quran to support my argument.That Islam stands for Peace.

You will choose to reject it.Because back in your mind you already have let your ego take over you.

Good luck with your beliefs.

[Marsellus Wallace]

Do you want to say that We Muslims believe in Violence?

Guess what no matter how many verses I show you from Quran to support my argument.That Islam stands for Peace.

You will choose to reject it.Because back in your mind you already have let your ego take over you.

Good luck with your beliefs.

Hell yeah, Muslims believe in violence, how the fuck do you think Islam spread across the middle east ?? read history . A simple example for this matter...
why is there a sword under the Islamic words "There is no god but Allah, Muhamed is the prophet of Allah" in the flag of saudi arabia .


These people didn't bring violence from nothing, they brought it from the religion that they're so blindly following .

And no, ego didn't take over, its logic that took over.

[Minimalist]

Guess what no matter how many verses I show you from Quran to support my argument.That Islam stands for Peace.

Yeah, yeah....the xtians claim their boy wants them to turn the other cheek, too. Didn't stop them from being a bunch of murdering pricks when they had the chance.

The chasm between what religions say and what their followers do is vast.



Fuck all of you.

[rhn2704]

Do you want to say that We Muslims believe in Violence?

Guess what no matter how many verses I show you from Quran to support my argument.That Islam stands for Peace.

You will choose to reject it.Because back in your mind you already have let your ego take over you.

Good luck with your beliefs.

Hell yeah, Muslims believe in violence, how the fuck do you think Islam spread across the middle east ?? read history . A simple example for this matter...
why is there a sword under the Islamic words "There is no god but Allah, Muhamed is the prophet of Allah" in the flag of saudi arabia .


These people didn't bring violence from nothing, they brought it from the religion that they're so blindly following .

And no, ego didn't take over, its logic that took over.

If logic took over you.Then logically speaking...

Why Indonesia is the country that has the largest number of Muslims in the world, and the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. But, no Muslim army ever went to Indonesia or Malaysia???

It is an established historical fact that Indonesia entered Islam not due to war, but because of its moral message. Despite the disappearance of Islamic government from many regions once ruled by it, their original inhabitants have remained Muslims. Moreover, they carried the message of truth, inviting others to it as well, and in so doing endured harm, affliction and oppression. The same can be said for those in the regions of Syria and Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, North Africa, Asia, the Balkans and in Spain. This shows that the effect of Islam on the population was one of moral conviction, in contrast to occupation by western colonialists, finally compelled to leave lands whose peoples held only memories of affliction, sorrow, subjugation and oppression.

· Muslims ruled Spain (Andalusia) for about 800 years. During this period the Christians and Jews enjoyed freedom to practice their respective religions, and this is a documented historical fact.

· Christian and Jewish minorities have survived in the Muslim lands of the Middle East for centuries. Countries such as Egypt, Morocco, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan all have significant Christian and Jewish populations.

· Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years, and therefore had the power to force each and every non-Muslim of India to convert to Islam, but they did not, and thus more than 80% of the Indian population remains non-Muslim.

· Similarly, Islam spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. And likewise no Muslim army was ever dispatched to the East Coast of Africa.

Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths. Freedom of religion is ordained in the Quran itself:

“There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong.” (Quran 2:256)

Also in the U.S.A., Islam is the fastest growing religion and has over six million followers.Who is forcing the people to accept Islam???


Ohh yah you said read the History.Well you read below the view from a noted historian De Lacy O’Leary wrote:

“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

Best of luck with your ego!!!

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Actions speak louder than words.

I think it would be polite of you to stop copy and pasting the same apologetics passage from your favorite apologist in every thread you post in, though.

Consider starting your own thread to discuss, if you really want to.

I am just trying to clear the misconceptions about Islam.

You said Actions speak Louder than Words.Yes you are right.

There about 1.5 billion muslims in the world today.If majority of us believed in Violence and slaying innocent people.

You could imagine what would be the scenario in the world today.

We Muslims are not the people who cause the World Wars.

We are also not the people who dropped Atom bombs in Japan.

Also if any terrorist goes blows up himself in the name of Islam.Then without any doubt he had wrong knowledge about the teachings of Islam and there will be Justice with God.

So, no true Scotsman?

---

Most Muslim apologists that want to gloss over the extremely violent and barbaric practices that exist today in almost all Islamic theocratic states (there are no other form of Islamic states to my knowledge) always hark back to the history of Islam which was without a doubt progressive.

The only issue is that it was progressive (to a degree) over a millennium ago. since the advent of destructive ideologies such as Wahhabism almost every Islamic states without exception has lagged behind the rest of the world, from the West to the Tiger economies of the east to even South America as of the last few decades. Islamic states are centuries behind the rest in terms of social, economic and political constructs and structures.

Now naturally, there are exceptions, but to this point in your post...:

· Christian and Jewish minorities have survived in the Muslim lands of the Middle East for centuries. Countries such as Egypt, Morocco, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan all have significant Christian and Jewish populations.

· Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years, and therefore had the power to force each and every non-Muslim of India to convert to Islam, but they did not, and thus more than 80% of the Indian population remains non-Muslim.

...I only have to laugh. Jews and Coptics have indeed enjoyed a 'sort' of freedom (see: Jizya - being forced to pay for not believing in the same thing? How progressive!) in the Islamic states they have resided in, but it's funny and tragic to note that their freedoms have been most prevalent in totalitarian states run by cartels or dictators (Egypt & Syria to name a couple). Since the fall of those regimes in the so called "Arab spring", Coptics and Jews have seen themselves persecuted to a factor multitudes higher following the installation of local tribe leaders as political advocates in now very unstable regions.

Again, this is not representative of all Muslims in these states, as many have sought to install secular and not theocratic regimes (Turkey, Egypt, Syria originally but the secular voice has now been murdered by extremists on both sides). But largely, being a religious minority in the Middle East is not good for your health.

Oh, and LOL. Let's not even start talking about Africa, where Muslims and Christians are at each other on a daily basis in almost every state they both have sizeable numbers in (most recently Nigeria of course, but let's not forget states like Sudan).