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Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
#21
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
Special Pleading: Asking for a lower standard of evidence for your favorite beliefs than you would apply to anyone else's.

"Those other gods are fake but Jesus is real."
"The Bible says [belief goes here] so it's true. I don't care what the Koran says."
"All those people who died in modern cults are crazy. The early Christians who died for their beliefs proves that Jesus rose from the dead."

Ad Hoc Hypothesis: Spuriously dismissing all contrary evidence by inventing new assertions, often pulled out of one's butt, that the skeptic must now disprove. The object is to wear down the skeptic and eventually force him/her to prove a negative.

Skeptic: Herod died in 4 BCE. Qurinius didn't start his administration until 6 CE. Matt says Jesus was born before Herod died while Luke says Jesus was born during the administration of Quirinius.
Christian: Well, maybe Quirinius had an earlier administration in Syria.
Skeptic: But Rome never allowed that, lest a governor get too much support from one province.
Christian: Well, maybe they made an exception for Quirinius.
Skeptic: But Judea was another kingdom under Herod, Rome wouldn't have conducted a census there.
Christian: Well, maybe they did anyway and Herod complied.
Skeptic: OK, I looked up the information on Quirinius and it says he was governor of another province in modern day Turkey at the time.
Christian: Well, maybe he was brought in to administer the census in Syria. And maybe Luke meant "administrator", not "governor".
Skeptic: What do you base that on?
Christian: It coulda happened.
Skeptic: OK, the census prior to 4 BC was in 8/9 BCE. Jesus would have been too old to be "about 30" when John the Baptist was arrested. JtB didn't even start his ministry until 28 CE according to Luke.
Christian: Well, maybe Luke meant 37 when he said "about 30".
Skeptic: What? That's ridiculous.
Christian: Can you prove Luke wouldn't think 37 was "about 30".
Skeptic: No one does!
Christian: Have you polled everyone on the planet about that?
Skeptic: OK, even if that is true, Jesus would have been 37 when JtB started his ministry, not when he finished it.
Christian: Well, maybe JtB only had a ministry for a year.
Skeptic: Gah! His hugely successful ministry was built in one year?
Christian: It coulda happened.
Skeptic: Look, John the Baptist was arrested for speaking out against Herod Antipas' marriage to Herodius. We know this marriage and divorce of Antipas' previous wife triggered a war with his neighbor and that battle happened in 37 CE. Why would king Aratas IV wait 10 years before attacking Judea?
Christian: It coulda happened.
[...]

The fallacy continues until the Christian "wins" when the skeptic gets frustrated and goes home.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#22
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
I saw one today where someone claimed that modern science is incorrect because scientists are sinners so can't possibly be right, and that events in the bible (like Noah's flood) take precedent over everything else and so all science is invalid.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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#23
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
Projection: Accusing your opponent of having the very faults you in fact have.

Christians sometimes claim that skepticism is an agenda. When we read the Bible and its horrors of genocide, slavery and rape by Yahweh's orders, it's because we're trying to validate our predisposition against Christianity. However, when they come up with completely obtuse interpretations, like Moses ordered his men to "keep the virgin girls for themselves" it was to use them as maidservants, not sex slaves.

See also the Christian charge that we have a bias against believing in miracles and the supernatural.

Reality: Skepticism is not an agenda. It's the application of critical thought to unproven claims. Further, it's the same approach they take to religions not their own. See also "special pleading".

Bare Assertion Fallacy: Just asserting something to be true and then going from there as if the assertion alone was enough.

Example: William Lane Craig's "Moral Proof" of (his) god.

Step 1: Without God, objective morals can't exist. (assertion)
Step 2: Objective morals exist. (assertion)
Step 3: Therefore, God exists (fallacious conclusion based upon bare assertions).
Step 4: (unspoken) ...and of course, by "God", I mean "Jesus" but that goes without even saying. (bare assertion, invalid assumption)
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#24
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? Huh
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#25
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
Not so much a fallacy, but I hate it when you're whittling down their various claims by asking how they know them to be true and they resort to attacking the very axioms we use to survive every day life, i.e. natural laws are consistent, in order to obfuscate the whole argument into an obscure, deeply philosophical discussion and show that much of the very knowledge we have is resting upon shaky foundations. Then they go, "See! We don't really know anything, so I can just assert that my arguments are valid without actually justifying them. And furthermore, just inserting the unfalsifiable solution of god into the equation solves all of those pesky philosophical questions that you non-believers still have to struggle with."

ETA: 9,000, bitches! Tongue
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#26
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
Quote:As in: If evolution is true, there will be murder and mayhem.


They should read the fucking news.
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#27
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
(April 10, 2014 at 3:39 pm)Beccs Wrote: Argument from personal experience is one that pisses me off.

"I had this experience I can't explain so you should believe in my god!"

I sometimes chalk that up to an Argument from Ignorance depending on how they word it.

"I just don't see how my personal experience couldn't have been god talking to me"
If the hypothetical idea of an afterlife means more to you than the objectively true reality we all share, then you deserve no respect.
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#28
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply
#29
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
(April 10, 2014 at 8:00 pm)Quantum Theorist Wrote: I sometimes chalk that up to an Argument from Ignorance depending on how they word it.

"I just don't see how my personal experience couldn't have been god talking to me"

Technically, I think that's Argument from Incredulity.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply
#30
RE: Most frustrating Fallacies that Religious people bring up?
Argumentum ad KenHamum - "Well...you see...there's this book..."
I'm a bitch, I'm a lover
I'm a goddess, I'm a mother
I'm a sinner, I'm a saint
I do not feel ashamed
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