"If you're not a Feminist, you're a Sexist"

[MJ the Skeptical]

I was really surprised to hear atheist youtuber AronRa say this in one of his videos. Personally, I take major issue with his assertion and blanket statement of all those who disagree with his definition of Feminism. I don't consider myself sexist or feminist first of all, so I think that refutes him. I would consider myself Egalitarian (or Equalitarian) and I personally see that as the best label for someone interested in the equal rights of both genders equally instead of Feminism which unfortunately does focus on women.

From what I've heard personally; The feminists I run into tend to laugh at oppression that happens to men, they don't fight along side the men when the men are marginalized like women can be marginalized and the men's oppression is dismissed as patriarchy. But if it was such an obvious patriarchy then why do so many men struggle, fill up prisons at 10:1 ratio over women and almost never get custody of kids... Anyway, just wanted to get the forums thoughts on this quote and topic.

Some female perspective on this would be most appreciated as well.

[DeistPaladin]

I would consider myself Egalitarian (or Equalitarian)

Then you are a feminist, at least as I understand the proper definition. A feminist is someone who wants equality between the genders. This may be what AronRa means. Kind of like how he says, "if you are not a theist, you are an atheist" (that there is no middle ground).

Ironically, the "feminists" you refer to are not feminists if they don't value equality between the genders. A feminist would not argue that one gender, male or female, is superior to the other or that mistreatment of either is of no concern.

Potentially, women can be sexist too and, if they are, they should be stripped of their feminist label.

[pocaracas]

I just want women to be women and men to be men.
There are clear biological differences. Not just physical, but also hormonal, which results in differences in the way of thinking and acting.
That's not to say that one gender is better or worse than the other.
they're just different and each should play to its strengths.
Of course, some people are born with one gender, but function perfectly in the role of the opposite gender (in most situations) (and sometimes, function better in the opposite gender role than their own) and those individuals should be given the same opportunities (within those situations) as the opposite gender.



A man can do a job as good any female babysitter! If that's masculinism, then so be it!

[MJ the Skeptical]

Then you are a feminist, at least as I understand the proper definition. A feminist is someone who wants equality between the genders. This may be what AronRa means. Kind of like how he says, "if you are not a theist, you are an atheist" (that there is no middle ground).

But I'm not. And this is the problem I had with Aron, giving me a label for myself and if I don't accept his label and definition then I'm sexist. It's bullshit.

I wouldn't consider a Feminist an Egalitarian seeing as how they ignore men's oppression. Where are the feminists marching for that?

Ironically, the "feminists" you refer to are not feminists if they don't value equality between the genders. A feminist would not argue that one gender, male or female, is superior to the other or that mistreatment of either is of no concern.

Sounds like the No True Scotsman fallacy. Who are you to decide what a real feminist is anyway? it's an overarching idea you can't equate like that. I was very careful with my wording as to not label them all but it's getting hard at this point.

Potentially, women can be sexist too and, if they are, they should be stripped of their feminist label.

Well seeing as how feminists can be pretty sexist, why strip anything..

[Ben Davis]

*reads DeistPaladin's comments

Ahhh, I'd answered the poll using the definition 'feminism = a focus on women's rights, leading to equality of sexes' rather than 'feminism = gender equalism'.
Using the first definition, the OP's a false dichotomy; using the second, it's a true dichotomy.

...erm, I can't vote for both

[MJ the Skeptical]

There are clear biological differences. Not just physical, but also hormonal, which results in differences in the way of thinking and acting.
That's not to say that one gender is better or worse than the other.
It's just different and each should play to its strengths.

A lot of feminists would call you sexist just for mentioning that.

[pocaracas]

There are clear biological differences. Not just physical, but also hormonal, which results in differences in the way of thinking and acting.
That's not to say that one gender is better or worse than the other.
It's just different and each should play to its strengths.

A lot of feminists would call you sexist just for mentioning that.

I don't doubt it...
But it is my view, borne out of my experience with the human race within my reach.... if it is wrong, then to hell with whoever thinks that!

[Sejanus]

I just want women to be women and men to be men.
There are clear biological differences. Not just physical, but also hormonal, which results in differences in the way of thinking and acting.
That's not to say that one gender is better or worse than the other.
they're just different and each should play to its strengths.
Of course, some people are born with one gender, but function perfectly in the role of the opposite gender (in most situations) (and sometimes, function better in the opposite gender role than their own) and those individuals should be given the same opportunities (within those situations) as the opposite gender.



A man can do a job as good any female babysitter! If that's masculinism, then so be it!

I have a feeling you're going to get shit for saying that.

[pocaracas]

I just want women to be women and men to be men.
There are clear biological differences. Not just physical, but also hormonal, which results in differences in the way of thinking and acting.
That's not to say that one gender is better or worse than the other.
they're just different and each should play to its strengths.
Of course, some people are born with one gender, but function perfectly in the role of the opposite gender (in most situations) (and sometimes, function better in the opposite gender role than their own) and those individuals should be given the same opportunities (within those situations) as the opposite gender.



A man can do a job as good any female babysitter! If that's masculinism, then so be it!

I have a feeling you're going to get shit for saying that.

hehe... are you wanting to say that I can't be a better babysitter than my wife?

EDIT: or, at least, as good...

[Sejanus]

hehe... are you wanting to say that I can't be a better babysitter than my wife?

EDIT: or, at least, as good...

Uhh... no. I said what I bolded in your post was going to get you shit from some members.

---

Using DeistPaladin's definition of feminism, the answer to the question would be yes. But I'm not sure if the notion "because men rule the world and suck at it"
follows from this answer, necessarily.