Easter letter from a pastor father

[coldwx]

So my father is in the habit of sending me letters and mostly I just ignore them, however this one struck a cord(see the 4th paragraph). He sent it to me and my brothers but the family knows it is directed specifically at me, since my own proclivities are often lamented facts of family lore(movie reference). So many things wrong with this letter. I am formulating a response but I figured the smarter minds on here would critique it and at the very least give me nugget or two I had not thought of....so fire away in 3, 2, ...

Napoleon expressed the following thoughts while he was exiled on the rock of St. Helena. There, the conqueror of civilized Europe had time to reflect on the measure of his accomplishments. He called Count Montholon to his side and asked him, "Can you tell me who Jesus Christ was?" The count declined to respond. Napoleon countered:

"Well then, I will tell you. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne and I myself have founded great empires; but upon what did these creations of our genius depend? Upon force. Jesus alone founded His empire upon love, and to this very day millions will die for Him. . . . I think I understand something of human nature; and I tell you, all these were men, and I am a man; none else is like Him: Jesus Christ was more than a man. . . . I have inspired multitudes with such an enthusiastic devotion that they would have died for me . . . but to do this is was necessary that I should be visibly present with the electric influence of my looks, my words, of my voice. When I saw men and spoke to them, I lightened up the flame of self-devotion in their hearts. . . . Christ alone has succeeded in so raising the mind of man toward the unseen, that it becomes insensible to the barriers of time and space. Across a chasm of eighteen hundred years, Jesus Christ makes a demand which is beyond all others difficult to satisfy; He asks for that which a philosopher may often seek in vain at the hands of his friends, or a father of his children, or a bride of her spouse, or a man of his brother. He asks for the human heart. He will have it entirely to Himself. He demands it unconditionally; and forthwith His demand is granted. Wonderful! In defiance of time and space, the soul of man, with all its powers and faculties, becomes an annexation to the empire of Christ. All who sincerely believe in Him, experience that remarkable, supernatural love toward Him. This phenomenon is unaccountable; it is altogether beyond the scope of man's creative powers. Time, the great destroyer, is powerless to extinguish this sacred flame; time can neither exhaust its strength nor put a limit to its range. This is it, which strikes me most; I have often thought of it. This it is which proves to me quite convincingly the Divinity of Jesus Christ."

This weekend marks the most climactic point in all history. The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus did more to affect the course of mankind and eternity than any other event. A person may wish to ignore Jesus’ claims to be God in the flesh, the one who took the punishment for our sins and reconciled us back to God, but they cannot overlook how He has changed the world. Christianity is unique. And its impact on the world is hard to apprehend now because we take for granted the values grounded in it. Christians invented hospitals, orphanages, and social programs because they loved each other and others because God loved them and commanded them to. Christianity established equal human value despite differences based on simply being God's creature. These kinds of values are commonplace now, but they were spawned by the Christian worldview and still find their home in Biblical values.

Those who prefer to adhere to a secular, relativistic world where there are no absolute; where self satisfaction is the soup de jour, do so not because of the lack of evidence on the existence of God. No, I have discovered that when a person does not want to be judged, they just proclaim that the Judge doesn’t exist. However they wish to believe, it does not change the reality of justice. Be certain of this, one day when the Author of the play walks on the stage, the curtain will be dropped.

In the meantime, God still reaches out to all who seek him and call on the name of Jesus.

One time when Jesus’ disciples were telling him what all the people of the town were saying about him, He asked them a question that each person must eventually answer for themselves and how they answer it will set their course for peace, hope, and eternal destiny.

Jesus looked at them and said “but who do you say I am”.

Have a blessed Easter. I love all of you

[FlyingNarwhal]

Dear Dad,

Fuck off.

Love, Your son

[Minimalist]

Your dad doesn't know much about history, either. I did look up that quote the last time some theist trotted it out and it did not appear in any of Napoleon's writings. His opinions of religion were well documented.

As it turns out that quote appeared in the writings of some British visitor to St Helena and, frankly, smacks of this:

Orthodox Christians have the habit of claiming all great men, all men who have held important positions, men of reputation, men of wealth. As soon as the funeral is over clergymen begin to relate imaginary conversations with the deceased, and in a very little while the great man is changed to a Christian -- possibly to a saint.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll

Xtians have never been above lying to advance their godboy.

[Senshi]

Parallels between Osiris and Jesus

Tell him You're having a hard time choosing between which judge you want to believe in.

[Minimalist]

An actual letter from Napoleon - written on St Helena - in which he explains his opinion of jesusism.

Religions are all founded on miracles — on things we cannot understand, such as the Trinity. Jesus calls himself the Son of God, and yet is descended from David. I prefer the religion of Mahomet — it is less ridiculous than ours.

Letter from St. Helena (28 August 1817)

[Raeven]

Tempting to employ FlyingNarwhal's approach. Very tempting. But...

As a lifelong atheist, I am not well-versed in biblical shit well enough to refute your dad with specific, useful contrary references, but others here are -- and I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help.

Do be sure to include references to how Christians "loved each other" with the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and other loving Christian visitations of torture and death on those whose beliefs were different to theirs. Remind him about the "loving" treatment of Christians toward women, gays and some minorities. Remind him that Mormons consider themselves Christians, and that they did not allow blacks to hold the priesthood in their church until 1978. The Catholics to this day do not recognize women in authority within their church. Very loving. There are endless examples. Pick the ones you like the best.

The flood story is always useful to point out God's "love" for his creation. There's a fun, currently-active thread here that shows what a "loving" action that was. Separate and apart from the fact that it is a ridiculous, unsupportable story in its own right.

It's so easy to poke holes in the Christian belief system. I marvel at anyone over the age of 10 who hasn't managed to do it -- especially someone who is obviously somewhat literate, as your father clearly is. Were I to ever receive a letter from my father such as you have, I would take it as an opportunity to rip his philosophy to shreds. I would be sure to ask him three things:

1 - How do you know the bible is true? (They can never adequately answer this, because the only answer is the circular one: "Because god tells me it is. In the bible.")

2 - If you (dad) had not been raised with this belief system and its stories shoved down your throat from birth by people whom you trusted, loved, and upon whom you depended for your very existence, can you honestly say that the bible stories are the explanations for the meaning of life you would have concluded without that forced indoctrination?

3 - Have you noticed that the world operates pretty much the same for we atheists as it does for the believers? In other words, we don't appear to suffer more or less for our lack of belief. The invisible and the non-existent are often the very same thing. This applies also to the power of prayer, of which there is none. You may as well recite, "Step on a crack, break your mother's back."

I would also turn his words back on him, that when a person does not want to be judged, he merely proclaims himself forgiven by the big, all-knowing, unprovable make-believe Skydaddy Judge. There is no shortage of examples of morally relativistic Christians. Of course, the standard reply to this is that those awful people weren't "real" Christians -- to which I like to ask, "How do you know? On what unwavering criteria are you able to base this judgment? And if you are right, then how come you're the only Christian who gets it?"

Do point out that we atheists live all around your father, and somehow we manage to live with about as much and as little "sin" as anyone else around him. In many cases with less, because we have actually examined our morality in depth and challenged it against flimsy belief systems that are not grounded in fact. In other words, we take it very seriously, and we haven't honed the fine art of living comfortably with the cognitive dissonance required to accept a Christian belief system -- or any other that isn't fact-based. In other words, to live comfortably with perpetual lies.

And do understand, he may be saying it nicely -- but he is calling you a bad person. Don't let him get away with this.

Don't flinch from your task to pick at the beliefs of religious nitwits every chance they give you. With the aforementioned tactics, I have had good success with either of two results: Either they begin a journey of deconversion, or they won't force their religious beliefs on me anymore. Win, win.

[coldwx]

An actual letter from Napoleon - written on St Helena - in which he explains his opinion of jesusism.

Religions are all founded on miracles — on things we cannot understand, such as the Trinity. Jesus calls himself the Son of God, and yet is descended from David. I prefer the religion of Mahomet — it is less ridiculous than ours.

Letter from St. Helena (28 August 1817)

That is a great find.

I looked up that Napoleon quote too and found it was said in a lecture by a british theologian no less. Figures.

[Minimalist]

Never doubt Robert G. Ingersoll. He had these jesus freaks nailed. It's the same genre as Darwin's "death bed" conversion......pure bullshit.

[Cato]

Those who prefer to adhere to a secular, relativistic world where there are no absolute; where self satisfaction is the soup de jour, do so not because of the lack of evidence on the existence of God. No, I have discovered that when a person does not want to be judged, they just proclaim that the Judge doesn’t exist. However they wish to believe, it does not change the reality of justice. Be certain of this, one day when the Author of the play walks on the stage, the curtain will be dropped.

I hate this ruse. What your father is really saying is, "I have no evidence for God; therefore, I can't begin to demonstrate his ability or method of judgement. I recognize this results in my inability to use the fear of eternal torment to influence your behavior. For this reason I must now attempt to shame you into submission with yet another unsupported declaration; namely, that you don't want to be judged."

Everyone constantly discriminates and judges. Evolution has wired us to make choices as a means of navigating our existence. Any system that codifies its dos and don'ts under the constant threat of eternal torment supported only by the fact that someone said so is morally bankrupt. The fact that we culturally don't abide by the dictates of the Bible is proof enough that regardless of ongoing ethical debate, the arbiter of good and evil is extra-biblical.

I am not enamored by all things Ayn Rand; however, I find little to disagree with regarding her proclamation, "judge, and prepare to be judged". I also have a measure of control regarding how much consideration I give received judgement. I value greatly what my wife thinks of me, but I don't blindly accept everything she has to say regarding my behavior.

If God were to exist I would have the reasonable expectation that he could provide some direct feedback. If he couldn't be bothered to do this then I couldn't be bothered to give a fuck.

[vorlon13]

The OP might feign a religious conversion to a far more strict fundamentalist literal and innerent Christian sect, and the start beseeching dad to clean up his act and get square with Jesus.

hock: