The nearness to God factor. How do Atheists feel about moving higher or lower?

[truthBtold]

Now you have to show your work. What makes you think that "God" is the highest existence? Oughtn't you to demonstrate its basic existence before you go running off like that?

It should rather be reversed. What makes me think the Highest existence is God. I acknowledge a Higher Power and a Ultimate High Being, then chose to worship it, and thus it becomes God to me. I don't believe in a being worthy of worship, then say it's the highest. It's the other way around.

I could indeed improve my personal rank: "every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better". Self-improvement is always encouraged. On its own it's not likely to get me very far in terms of societal interaction.

Again, we are talking about ranks. If you improve, do you believe you are a rank higher in existence then you were previously?

Seriously. . God is the highest existence? Where the hell do u get that from without even knowing what a god is?

A god is simply a being worthy of worship. Worship is simply the highest type of reverence we humans have. I believe we all travel to the Highest existence, so would not worship a rank which I have potential of reaching. Since we all travel to Highest existence, there is only one rank that none will reach, which is Highest Being himself. That is why I believe only that being is worthy of worship, hence the only God, hence Allah.

It's not that I believe a being is worthy of worship then believe it's the highest. It's the other way around.

Ad populum, even though all people don't attribute it to God. Children raised secularly still have the same socially accepted morals (or better) than children raised to never grow up, and believe there is always an adult looking over their shoulder who will punish them if they do wrong.

This is a straw man.

That's not morality, it's fear of being punished. Who decides the ranking system?

That there is a score-keeping card for morality?

You bring a good point, in that, how do we have ranks or values of goodness and honour, if there is no score keeping system. What if we don't care about our deeds, does that make our deeds irrelevant? Or do we still inherit our actions, get a value for them, and have an objective rank? And if so how?

If we are valuing our actions by our subjective experience, we can chose to forget and not care about our deeds. Others might care and be harder on themselves. There is no objective score sheet however.

In the case of God however the value of each person is known to him and inherited in the soul. Good actions get inherited and bad actions get inherited.

Where is this universal objective ranking scale?

I would think it's god, and god lives within us, and we chose how much to be in tune with that commander and teacher in us, or we can ignore it's judgement.

Well. Thanks for ur personal experience. .. it does nothing for reality. . But thanks..

[Mystic]

An argument can be made on the lines of this.

When we perform good actions and become better people, we ascend in stages of existence.
Ascension in stages of existence is only explained by existence of God.
Therefore God exists.

Interested in which of these two premises Atheists here have a problem with. 1 or 2? Or both?

[Cyberman]

This is in danger of going off the rails. Forgive me if I back away and let others more patient stand in my stead.

[Chas]

My guess is that those who ground their morality in our genetic heritage would, if they were consistent, strive for greater conformity to evolutionary impulses. Otherwise they would evoke the very transcendent principles they deny.

Except no one does. Nice straw man.

---

An argument can be made on the lines of this.

When we perform good actions and become better people, we ascend in stages of existence.
Ascension in stages of existence is only explained by existence of God.
Therefore God exists.

Interested in which of these two premises Atheists here have a problem with. 1 or 2? Or both?

Again, ascend what? There is reality and there is unreality. You are firmly stuck in the latter.

[Mystic]

This is in danger of going off the rails. Forgive me if I back away and let others more patient stand in my stead.

It was good discussing with you. Was a pleasure.

[truthBtold]

An argument can be made on the lines of this.

When we perform good actions and become better people, we ascend in stages of existence.
Ascension in stages of existence is only explained by existence of God.
Therefore God exists.

Interested in which of these two premises Atheists here have a problem with. 1 or 2? Or both?

I have a problem with ur claims.. therefore god exsists.?? . filling in blanks when u find it convenient and dont know what the hell u r talking about... r u bored???

[Mystic]

I think I have to re-word the 2nd premise into:

Ascension in stages of existence is only possible with existence of God.

Albeit the same meaning, but just in case, people get into semantics.

[truthBtold]

I think I have to re-word the 2nd premise into:

Ascension in stages of existence is only possible with existence of God.

Albeit the same meaning, but just in case, people get into semantics.

Really? Oh I give up... my arms are tired from beating a dead horse..

[Little lunch]

An argument can be made on the lines of this.

When we perform good actions and become better people, we ascend in stages of existence.
Ascension in stages of existence is only explained by existence of God.
Therefore God exists.

Interested in which of these two premises Atheists here have a problem with. 1 or 2? Or both?

Ok, with the first one, what is a good action and why and how does it make a person better?
What is a stage of existence? Why is ascending better than descending?
Wait a minute, sorry, you've already given the answers to these questions in the second part.
Because god.

[RobbyPants]

Well it's not simply power, it's that it's the ultimate existence, the highest being, the being that excels in all qualities of perfection and who highness cannot ever be reached by creation. It's the Highest in love and goodness as well as power. It's not simply power that I worship, although, in reality ultimate power is ultimate love/goodness.

How do you know this perfection exists?

An argument can be made on the lines of this.

When we perform good actions and become better people, we ascend in stages of existence.
Ascension in stages of existence is only explained by existence of God.
Therefore God exists.

Interested in which of these two premises Atheists here have a problem with. 1 or 2? Or both?

If I eat pizza, do I ascend to being more pizza-like? If yes, why? If no, why?

I'm not asking that to be rude or dismissive. It's just, it seems like you've taken an arbitrary quality (goodness) and assumed it is somehow a thing something which can be gradually obtained by doing it.

I mean, yes, "strength" and "stamina" can be obtained by exercise. "Obesity" can be obtained by over eating. Those are things we can observe and measure.

"Goodness" seems somewhat immeasurable, and no one has a good definition for what it is. So, saying that we become more good by being good but will always fall short of absolute good seems both like word salad and like something you're just making up.