Argument #1: Transitional Fossils

[Revelation777]

I actually want to take my family there for a nice trip once the ark has been finished.

Great. Then you will have no excuse not to go on a geological field trip with me and anyone else who wants to attend, since I am just down the road, in Louisville.

I would only go if you pay for my plane ticket round trip, provide me room and board, and Stimbo, Esq, Steel Curtain, and Minimalist come as well.

[Faith No More]

I have come to a conclusion, on to Argument #2.

You mean you had previously arrived to a conclusion and refuse to entertain the notion that it is wrong despite the mounting evidence presented against it put before your very eyes.

[The Valkyrie]

Fixed that for you, Esq.

I have come to a conclusion, on to Argument #2.

No, you started with a conclusion, posted a lot of nonsense that was thoroughly debunked by everyone here and you've stuck to the same conclusions because you don't want to accept reality

[Cyberman]

Great. Then you will have no excuse not to go on a geological field trip with me and anyone else who wants to attend, since I am just down the road, in Louisville.

I would only go if you pay for my plane ticket round trip, provide me room and board, and Stimbo, Esq, Steel Curtain, and Minimalist come as well.

I'm up for that. Maybe I'll get an answer to my poor hanging questions.

[Esquilax]

I would only go if you pay for my plane ticket round trip, provide me room and board, and Stimbo, Esq, Steel Curtain, and Minimalist come as well.

Sweet, road trip! I'll bring Luckie!

[Revelation777]

To Revelation777

Before you start Argument 2, read this at the bottom of the page I'm linking to. A warning from Saint Augustine (4th century) to Christians about the creation:

I'll bold the bits which are relevant to this topic and any others you start in the hope of proving the Bible true.

"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking non-sense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although 'they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.'" (Augustine, The Literal Meaning of Genesis, vol. 1, ch.19.)

In other words, you're never going to convert anyone here by providing rubbish arguments for why God exists.

Back to Francis Collins . Francis Collins and Karl Giberson Talk about Evolution and the Church, Part 2

Here he explains how the study of DNA backs up evolution.

I couldn't find your answer to my question about what you believe the purpose of the Bible to be. Here's an article on a Christian website which shows what I was hoping you'd think about. I don't believe that God spoke to Moses myself but that's not the point here.

Why aren't Dinosaurs Mentioned in the Biblical Creation Account?

The first five books of the Bible, including Genesis, were written by Moses. Since nobody except God was present at the creation, the Genesis creation account was given to Moses by God. If one is attempting to second guess the Author of Genesis, one must take these facts into account.

Purpose of the creation account

God was not interested in giving Moses a scientific treatise on the creation of the world. The Bible indicates that God's communication to Moses was centered on the relationship between God and man and the rules by which God wanted man to live. Therefore, the creation account mirrors the content of the rest of the Bible, which centers on mankind and his relationship to God. The question, "Why would God leave out a description of the dinosaurs?" is a bad one to begin with. A more appropriate question should be "What would God want to relate to man about His description of the creation?"

Problems with including dinosaurs

There are some technical problems that God would have faced in including dinosaurs in the creation account. There is no word for "dinosaur" in the Hebrew language. Now, God could have invented a Hebrew word for dinosaur and explained what those animals were like and how they had died out. However, this is a one page description of the creation of the world and life in it. Trying to explain about an extinct group of creatures would have taken a lot of space and distracted from the rest of the creation account.

Obviously, there were a lot more creatures than just dinosaurs that were left out of the creation account. If God were to have included every creature in the creation account (well over one billion), such inclusion would have completely lost the spiritual significance of the passage (and would be much longer than the Bible itself). The purpose of the Genesis creation account is to give an account of how God created mankind and provided for him. The account, like the entire Bible, centers on God and His miraculous workings for mankind. Therefore, in the creation account, we find the supernatural creation of the universe by God, indicating that the universe wasn't always here, but created by God for man. Next, it talks about the creation of plants, which are important to humans, since we eat them, and also important to the animals that we rely upon, which also eat them. Then, it talks about the sea creatures and birds, which we also eat. It next talks about the beasts of the field, which we eat and use for labor. Then it talks about the creation of mankind and how he is to have dominion and manage the earth and its creatures.

The second chapter of Genesis gives a spiritual account of the creation of mankind and man's relationship to God. The entire account is centered on God and man. Therefore, one would expect the creation account to describe events that are important to mankind.

The idea that evolution is the way God did it still means that God created everything.

Moses is supposed to died in 1405 BC when he was 120 years old. If God had tried to give him full scientific details about the universe, poor Moses would have been dead of old age before he'd finished writing everything down. (Don't forget that God would know everything, not just what humans have discovered so far.) Yes, being God, he could have extended Moses's life for the purpose but this would have meant the Israelites being stuck in the desert for a lot longer than 40 years.

With all due respect to Augustine, my intentions are not to misrepresent the Scripture.

[The Valkyrie]

I would only go if you pay for my plane ticket round trip, provide me room and board, and Stimbo, Esq, Steel Curtain, and Minimalist come as well.

I'm up for that. Maybe I'll get an answer to my poor hanging questions.

Don't count on it.

[Silver]

With all due respect to Augustine, my intentions are not to misrepresent the Scripture.

One cannot help except to misrepresent it, especially since no two people can ever agree on a single interpretation of it.

[Cyberman]

I'm up for that. Maybe I'll get an answer to my poor hanging questions.

Don't count on it.

True. Still, maybe I'll get lucky.

Failing that, maybe I'll get lucky.

[The Valkyrie]

I would only go if you pay for my plane ticket round trip, provide me room and board, and Stimbo, Esq, Steel Curtain, and Minimalist come as well.

Sweet, road trip! I'll bring Luckie!

A free trip to the States?

I'm in.

But I won't go and put money in Ham's pocket.