Christians, what is your VERY BEST arguments for the existence of God?

[tackattack]

Wow CP, I dind't think you had it in you

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Wow CP, I dind't think you had it in you

What? Such a subtle level of parody?

For reasons passing all understanding,the American people refuse to equate gun related crimes with guns (Martin Sheen as AJ,The Chief of Staff in "The American President,or it might have been as Jed Bartlet in " The West Wing")

[tackattack]

For what I took as an unbiased arguement, until I read his other post in another thread completely contradicting this one.

[roundsquare]

..which equates to the same thing in my opinion... so can you explain how you can dismiss those two arguments so I can see?

It IS NOT the same thing. Disproving two arguments for the existence of God does not mean i have disproved God entirely.

The 'first cause' argument is easy two disprove for two simple reasons, though there are many arguments that take it out:

1) It is a blatantly obvious case of special pleading, ie 'everything that has a beginning has a cause, except God'

2) Not everything that has a beginning has a cause, for example a Carbon-14 atom can spontaneously decay into Nitrogen 14 emitting ionizing particles without anything at all acting upon it, no force, no energy, nothing. It is a truly random process that is entirely uncaused. Therefore claiming that everything that has a beginning has a cause is false. Considering that, Occams razor can be applied to show that the Creator/Prime Mover requires one more assumption than the singularity while not having any basis in necessity and is therefore not the preferred explanation logically.

The argument from fine tuning is destroyed by the context and scale of the universe. The argument that the universe was made for life is rendered ridiculous by the fact that for one life supporting planet in a tiny corner of the galaxy is accompanied by incomprehensibly vast regions of empty space, galaxies with hundreds of billions of stars and a universe with hundreds of billions of galaxies. In this scale life does appear as an extremely low probability occurrence that can take place only in very rare circumstances.

the example you give of a seemingly causles process wont convince me, carbon-14 has a half life and in the fullness of time it will decompose. just because you havent identified a cause for it doesnt imply there isnt a cause. secondly the only thing thats blatanly obvious is the caricature you painted of the cosmological argument. the argument says whatever begins to exist has a cause since GOD has no beginning it doesnt apply to him. the universe was made to support life, not to create life from slimey conditions. hence the rarity of life does nothing to challenge ID.

[Darwinian]

To say that the Universe was made to support life shows a breathtaking naivety about the nature of the Universe. As far as we know, our little planet is the only place that can support life but if you have any other evidence then we'd be more than happy to read it.

[roundsquare]

carbon-14 decays because atoms its atoms are unstable. the unstable nature of atoms causes them to decay.

---

To say that the Universe was made to support life shows a breathtaking naivety about the nature of the Universe. As far as we know, our little planet is the only place that can support life but if you have any other evidence then we'd be more than happy to read it.

---

it seems the folks at seti and those that plan trips to mars think that it is.

[chatpilot]

For what I took as an unbiased arguement, until I read his other post in another thread completely contradicting this one.

There is some bias in my arguments for the most part, but those biases are mainly based on my negative experiences with religion. It's hard for me to be unbiased on this matter of religion since I see that it means so much to so many people. Although, it may be a delusional perspective from which to view life, in my opinion for some people that delusion is necessary to provide purpose and meaning to their individual lives.

[tackattack]

I don't see you as delusion cp, you're very rational at time, though tinged with hate. I accept from what you've shared that it's also completely warranted and wouldn't want to discredit your life experiences in any way. It was exctly contradictory to your post in the other thread though.

[divermike]

Well to me the word infinity comes to mind, and the thought that this reality is impossible unless it was created. Also mix the thought of the impossibility of infinity with this verse..... 1 Corinthians 2:9 (New International Version)

9However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"

[tackattack]

after the interruption of a spammer we'll continue