Argument #2: Evolution Of Species

[Revelation777]

Of course technology has improved in 50 years for a computer hasn't morphed into an airplane.

Cute little jab, but planes don't reproduce with variation, so you're completely off the mark there.

My point, however, was this: why on earth would you think that biology hasn't advanced in fifty years too?

Edited to add: Oh, but since you want to talk about airplanes and evolution, here's a scientific paper on the use of evolutionary algorithms in aeronautics. Something that simply wouldn't be possible if evolution did not work.

You kinda picked a really bad example, there.

I don't see how this proves anything?

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What if there is dishonesty among atheists?

There is undoubted dishonesty amongst atheists. But Christianity based creationism is the essence of dishonesty and there can't be anything but dishonesty amongst creationists like you.

If someone believes God is the Creator, how is that being dishonest? To be it is being genuine.

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Argument #2: Evolution of Species

The evolutionist Kerkut defined the “general theory of evolution” as “the theory that living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form.” He goes on to say, “The evidence which supports this is not sufficiently strong to allow us to consider it as anything more than a working hypothesis.” G. A. Kerkut, Implications of Evolution (Oxford, UK: Pergamon, 1960), p.157.

My argument is not that change doesn’t take place within species over time. My argument is that no matter how long the time frame, there is no substantial scientific evidence that a microbe has evolved into a human being. Additionally, there is no substantial scientific evidence that non-living chemicals can produce a living cell regardless of time and/or chance.

Even if that were true (which it isn't), that wouldn't be any evidence of a God that creates life using magic.

I don't call it magic, I call it power.

[Jackalope]

I don't see how this proves anything?

....and no one at all was surprised.

[eyemixer]

God created after their "kind"

I am having difficulty understanding what you mean by 'kind' as it is not a scientific term nor have I ever seen it used in a biology course.

Can you explain what you mean by 'kind'? I do not need any fancy language, simply what you understand a 'kind' to mean in your own words.

I am not claiming you are wrong, I just don't understand what you mean by the term and that confusion makes any meaningful conversation impossible, contrary to the goals of a discussion forum I believe.

[Lemonvariable72]

I don't see how this proves anything?

....and no one at all was surprised.

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Fixed that for you cuthlu

[Esquilax]

I don't see how this proves anything?

Well, my pointing out that biology has advanced in fifty years proves that the source you started out the thread with is a tad out of date, my link to evolutionary algorithms proves that the mechanisms for evolution work, and my quip about airplanes not reproducing proves that airplanes don't have sex.

I'm pretty glad about that last part.

If someone believes God is the Creator, how is that being dishonest? To be it is being genuine.

Believing in god isn't dishonest, but being a creationist is, because you have to outright ignore the mountains of evidence for evolution.

I don't call it magic, I call it power.

Don't you think that's a pretty meaningless quibble?

[Revelation777]

You'll been saying that numbers of people who believe something doesn't count for anything.

Because it doesn't!!! Science isn't settled by ballot and your emotions on the matter count for shit also. Millions of people believing in creationism doesn't give any credence to the position. Millions of people believing in creationism just proves there are millions of gullible idiots.

I don't care how rational or otherwise reasonable someone is; if people conclude that creationsim is a compelling explanation for our existence in the face of easily accesible fact to the contrary then those people are fucking idiots.

Well many of your government leaders, judges, law officers, etc. believe God created everything, does that make them idiots too?

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He posted a link in a reply to me. Basically, God is omnipotent, so God could have done it, and it doesn't have to make sense or be scientifically useful because God works in mysterious ways. Which isn't even a rebuttal to the contention that inherited retroviral insertions across species only make sense in the context of the theory of evolution.

I suppose if you're willing to invoke magic, you can "justify" belief in anything.

I don't believe in invoking magic, I believe in the Holy Bible.

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You'll been saying that numbers of people who believe something doesn't count for anything.

But you are arguing as though it does matter how many people believe a thing, and in the case of scientific experts who accept the theory of evolution, not laymen, the numbers are wholly, unflinchingly and categorically against you.

Arguing from your parameters (that the number of experts who accept a thing is true has some bearing on it actually being true), you have been squashed like a bug by a factor of at least 10.

If this were a valid way to evaluate evidence (by popularity), than you should defending the theory of evolution, not arguing against it. The fact that you think 650 scientists going on record as believing in a 6-day creation actually means something tells the rest of us that you don't have the first clue about how fallacious your arguments are, though I think the rest of us knew that all along.

Once you understand why appealing to the number of experts you agree with you doesn't matter (as many people have done, read the posts preceding mine here for the explanation), then you'll understand why appealing to the number of experts who believe a majority position doesn't matter. All that matters is the evidence, not how many people you can get to stand behind you on the playground, and in the case of evolution, the evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the theory.

And the most educated and brilliant men of Jesus' day thought He was wrong,,,but guess what? He was right and they were wrong.

[Jackalope]

I suppose if you're willing to invoke magic, you can "justify" belief in anything.

I don't believe in invoking magic, I believe in the Holy Bible.

...which is equally unjustified, and a distinction without a difference as well.

[SteelCurtain]

Help change my baby's diapers would free me up more for responses.

Just post pictures of those diapers. It'll be an upgrade from what you're currently posting.

Seriously, though, Rev. I think I speak for everyone when I say. One, just one, good, cogent response to any of the serious questions asked to you in this thread would be 1000x better than the one liner non-responses like the one I am replying to. No one gives a shit how much time you spend on the forums. If it's 15 mins a day, that's great. If you don't get on most days, great. Just don't waste what time you get posting useless, time wasting shit, then cry about us not taking you seriously and calling you an idiot.

Posts like the ones you put out there today are perfect examples of why we think that.

[Revelation777]

Jesus made the claim He is the Son of God.

Can you prove Jesus' claim without accepting it merely on blind, fallible faith?

He changes people's lives.

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Jesus made the claim He is the Son of God.

How do you know Jesus existed?

He lives in my heart.

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How do you know Jesus existed?

Because he talks to jesus remember? Funny, you talk to some dude that lived 2000 years ago, your a christian. Talk your mother that died 2 years ago your nuts.

Jesus promised He would never leave nor forsake me. I can't physically see Him but He is there.

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So let me guess the argument is like this.


You see no changes can ever happen to an animal outside of its kind.

*Sees it happen

You see those animals are the same kind

Change doesn't happen where one kind evolved into another different kind.

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When Jesus returns there will be no atheists left. But till then there will be unbelief.

He's gonna roast 'em, amirite?

I meant, when you see Him coming in the clouds, you can't deny He is God.

[Silver]

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Can you prove Jesus' claim without accepting it merely on blind, fallible faith?

He changes people's lives.

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How do you know Jesus existed?

He lives in my heart.

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Because he talks to jesus remember? Funny, you talk to some dude that lived 2000 years ago, your a christian. Talk your mother that died 2 years ago your nuts.

Jesus promised He would never leave nor forsake me. I can't physically see Him but He is there.

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Nonsensical responses based on an emotional attachment to something that cannot reciprocate. Hardly compelling.