Prayer Studies

[Heywood]

I'm not a big believer in the power of prayer for reasons that have nothing to do with the results of prayer studies. That being said, I often hear atheists claim that scientific studies of prayer show that it doesn't work. I cringe that people actually put faith in studies which are obviously fatally flawed. How do you test God? How do you control that variable?

Suppose I am a researcher looking for evidence for the "power of prayer". I ask my participants to pray for a certain group of heart patients. Does God actually consider those prayers to be prayers or merely elements in a "scientific" study? Maybe God has decided he will not be tested and ignores those prayers or maybe he decides to apply the "graces" from those "prayers" to people not under the scrutiny of the researcher.

There is a reason researchers will often keep the true purpose of a study away from the test subjects....they don't want the study to influence the actions of their subjects. With God that is impossible to do. A researcher studying the power of prayer has to hope that his subject, God, will cooperate in the study...he can't trick God into cooperating.

Second, Prayer studies will contain a control group of people for whom prayers are not offered. But the researchers cannot guarantee that prayers are not offered for this group. A patient who is part of the not prayed for control group.....may mention he has a heart problem to a friend not part of or privy to the study....the friend then says a prayer for the patient. It is simply impossible to have an untainted control group. Somebody, outside the study is always going to know the patients condition.....and might pray for them.

Can any atheists point to a prayer study that isn't flawed?

[Sejanus]

Prayer doesn't work because your god doesn't exist. It's simple, really.

[Silver]

How do you test God?

I imagine it has more to do with testing the effect believing in god has than testing something for which there is no evidence to support its existence.

[Minimalist]

The US military cemetery at Omaha Beach.

I wonder how many prayed to get across that fucking beach?

[Chad32]

As much of an attention seeker as Yahweh is portrayed to be in the bible, I'm baffled that he's ever want to hide from anyone. Matthew 7:7 said ask and you will receive. If he refuses to show himself to nonbelievers, then it just makes it harder to convert them.

You test prayer by seeing how consistent it is in getting results. Just like you test everything else.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Jesus said that if a believer asked for anything in prayer that he would give it to the person. If you believe in Jesus pray to him and ask for what you want. It's therefore easy to determine if prayer works.

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The US military cemetery at Omaha Beach.

I wonder how many prayed to get across that fucking beach?

That's a faulty question since countless people experienced years of combat and didn't get injured at all.

[Heywood]

As much of an attention seeker as Yahweh is portrayed to be in the bible, I'm baffled that he's ever want to hide from anyone. Matthew 7:7 said ask and you will receive. If he refuses to show himself to nonbelievers, then it just makes it harder to convert them.

You test prayer by seeing how consistent it is in getting results. Just like you test everything else.

With everything else you can isolate and control variables. With prayer you cannot. You cannot guarantee God even considers the prayers genuine prayers and not artifacts of a scientific study. You cannot guarantee prayers are not offered for people in the control group. Every study I have seen suffers from these two fatal flaws.....meaning the results of the study are useless.

[Losty]

Ask and you shall receive seek and you shall find knock and the door will be slammed in your face? Is that how the verse goes? Hmm

[Heywood]

Ask and you shall receive seek and you shall find knock and the door will be slammed in your face? Is that how the verse goes? Hmm

I don't want to argue the bible....but I know it doesn't say, "participate in a scientific experiment and you will be healed". By making an intercessory request an artifact of a scientific experiment, you change the nature of the act itself.

[Silver]

You cannot guarantee God even considers the prayers genuine prayers and not artifacts of a scientific study.

Of course not, because for god to be considered a proper variable he must first be proven to exist. Without his existence to support the controlled variable, one can only study the effects belief in god and prayer have on particular outcomes.

Studies have shown that mind alteration geared toward the positive sometimes, that being the operative word, can improve an outcome. Of course, even the opposite can be stated as well. As a pessimist, I can state for certain that sometimes good things happen to me even though I was genuinely expecting the worst.

Outcomes, overall, cannot be controlled by thought, mind alteration, or god. Outcomes occur the way they do for the simple reason that was the way they were supposed to occur. Outcomes are nothing more than coincidences, no matter how much meaning we would prefer to attribute to them.