Common self contradiction of the religious

[Cyberman]

He spoke...before the big bang? what exactly was he speaking with and into......? If he spoke it all into existence that would omit the air as his creation - since he'd be needing that to babble into.

“And God said 'Let there be light!'

But there was not yet a Universe for Him to spake in, nor Time within which to do anything
Nor air in which to propogate His words
So bugger all happened.
And God had not the capacity to understand why nothing was happening
And He stood there - on nothing, remember - spaking 'Hello? Hello? Erm, I'm going to try switching it off and then on again. Sometimes that works.'
And God vanished in a blaze of light
And sparks
And much cursing
And was never seen nor heard from again.“

[Ryantology]

I think a more fascinating question is: how does timelessness work? What is it like to be outside of time?

Not a clue. What do you think?

Presumably, god exists in some form that is capable of action and thought, and therefore capable of marking time.

If God is able to transcend time, even if He is able to mark time, He wouldn't be bound by it.

Was god just one second old when he began to create the universe?

If God is timeless He can't be old.

Where is your proof that your god is timeless, and/or is able to transcend time? Give specific examples and links to peer-reviewed scientific studies proving that it is your specific god at work.

[Ravenshire]

Here's a mind-bender: if god is an eternal being, that means that he literally waited forever to create the Earth!

And, with forever to plan, he still managed to fuck it up.

[The Valkyrie]

Here's a mind-bender: if god is an eternal being, that means that he literally waited forever to create the Earth!

And, with forever to plan, he still managed to fuck it up.

So much for "intelligent" design.

[orangebox21]

What if I were to assert that the universe existed in this timeless state you're talking about?

You certainly could assert that. Given that the universe now exists in a state of time, how did time come into existence?

And isn't god omnipotent, and omniscient? Which means he has INFINITE power and INFINITE knowledge.

I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean by "Infinite." To say that God can do anything we can imagine is not Biblically supported. The Bible states He cannot lie, and He cannot deny Himself. I would also say that He couldn't cause Himself to not exist nor create a rock too heavy for himself to lift.

Infinities are impossible right?

What do you mean?

Religious logic: "The universe existing without a cause is absurd, and infinities can't exist, so I'll propose a being which exists without a cause to cause the universe, since the universe can't exist without a cause, and this cause has infinite in knowledge and power, even though I claim infinities can't exist and those traits don't follow from my argument..."

To address the infinities can't exist assertion: Who has made this claim? Please explain how infinities can't exist.
To address the 'universe existing without a cause' line of reasoning: you're not understanding the argument. Go back and read post #18.

How does he transcend time?

Another good question that is probably better left to people far smarter than myself. I will offer the best analogy I have according to the knowledge I have.

God created time and yet he transcends it (He is not held subject to it's properties) If I were to create a dinner plate I would transcend that dinner plate. Certainly the plate is not alive, yet I am. The plate cannot move yet I am able to. The plate cannot think nor reason yet I am able to do both. So just as I am able to transcend something I have created, so to God is able to transcend His.

Then we're back to my original quip-- he literally waited forever to begin creating.

Forever is a measure of time. Can someone wait an amount of time in a state of timelessness? This seems nonsensical.

---

Not a clue. What do you think?
If God is able to transcend time, even if He is able to mark time, He wouldn't be bound by it.
If God is timeless He can't be old.

Where is your proof that your god is timeless, and/or is able to transcend time? Give specific examples and links to peer-reviewed scientific studies proving that it is your specific god at work.

---

[MindForgedManacle]

This is, of course, ignoring the fact that an eternal being with no peers would have no need for language.

It in fact couldn't have one, as a private language is an impossibility.

[Tonus]

God created time and yet he transcends it (He is not held subject to it's properties) If I were to create a dinner plate I would transcend that dinner plate. Certainly the plate is not alive, yet I am. The plate cannot move yet I am able to. The plate cannot think nor reason yet I am able to do both. So just as I am able to transcend something I have created, so to God is able to transcend His.

I can see this being used to state that god transcends the universe, since he creates the universe. And in this case we might say that god transcends time, since time is a property of the universe. Then we have to wonder which plane of existence god 'lives' in, and why time would not be a property of that plane of existence.

Forever is a measure of time. Can someone wait an amount of time in a state of timelessness? This seems nonsensical.

The concept of eternity going back seems nonsensical too, but it must be real for the universe to exist. If we step outside of the universe, how would we mark time? If god decides to ponder a question, has time passed while he pondered the question? Is there no way to place god's actions on a timeline that extends past the creation of the universe?

[Ryantology]

Secondly in asking for scientific evidence to prove God you make a categorical mistake. Science is the study of the material world. God is spirit. How can the study of the material world explain a non-material entity? This would be like me asking you to prove that ultraviolet light exists by using only your eyes. Or, answer 2+2=? using colors. Not all light is detectable from the human eye, numbers are used to answer math questions and colors are used to answer the visible light spectrum questions.

How do you justify making the assertion that a 'non-material entity' exists, since you insist that it is impossible to examine or study it in any way?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Was god just one second old when he began to create the universe?

If God is timeless He can't be old.

Cop Out.

[Cyberman]

If this god affects the material world in any way whatsoever, from answered prayers to special creation, then those effects fall squarely in the purview of science. As AronRa would say, every time this god reaches down into the material plane it ought to pull its arm out dripping with physics.

Conversely, if this god doesn't affect the material world, then it might just as well not exist at all (even assuming it does anyway).

So which is it: a god which has to leave detectable, measurable evidence of its existence, or one which is indistinguishable from no god at all?