Abraham, Isaac, and a Dead Toddler

[Esquilax]

This makes me laugh when atheists say they would rather experience unabated torment in hell than unabated happiness in heaven. You're being dishonest here. And I do wish that everyone would end up in heaven, but I'm not assuming that everyone I meet would want to be there because they don't have a realistic perception of heaven and hell.

Heaven, as you believe it, is going to be full of all the people that believe as you do. To start with, that means that heaven is going to be full of all the arrogant, condescending, preachy, petty people that we meet here in the forums, the ones with detailed revenge fantasies about how god is going to get everyone who disagrees with them, and who think it's a perfectly fine thing to disrespect any sense of boundaries in order to preach, then deem themselves the arbiters of what's in everyone else's mind, and who is and isn't lying. Your heaven is full to the brim with assholes, apparently; why would we want to spend eternity with such thoroughly disagreeable people.

But think a little further; heaven is filled with only people who agree with each other. No new ideas will be present, no sources of conflict or growth, and no challenge. So now we've got a realm filled with doctrinally-obsessed windbags who now have confirmation that their personal interpretation of how life works is sufficient to earn them a ticket to heaven, and what happens next? Any tiny, piffling differences that do exist will become sources of conflict, because these kinds of people, the ones happy to bandy about their presuppositions, believe on faith and tell everyone else who is and isn't a True Christian, are exactly the kinds of people who would cause fights over the tiniest points of disagreement. Hell, you only have to look at how the Christian Right behaves here on earth to see that.

Heaven sounds gross, and "no, you're lying," isn't an argument, Lek.

[Cyberman]

This makes me laugh when atheists say they would rather experience unabated torment in hell than unabated happiness in heaven.

It makes me laugh when people of the faith say that atheists are deserving of unabated torment in hell simply by virtue of the fact that we don't share your beliefs. If there truly is a just god and it really is as it's often described (perfectly moral etc), that attitude right there is surely a one-way ticket to this hell of which you speak.

And why should anyone in hell be tormented anyway? God isn't around to do the work, and the devil surely isn't going to do it - it's going to reward people who acted against your god, seeing as it's your god's rival. What, I'm going to do my enemy's job for him and punish you for crimes against him? I'd want my head read.

[Crossless2.0]

But think a little further; heaven is filled with only people who agree with each other. No new ideas will be present, no sources of conflict or growth, and no challenge. So now we've got a realm filled with doctrinally-obsessed windbags who now have confirmation that their personal interpretation of how life works is sufficient to earn them a ticket to heaven, and what happens next? Any tiny, piffling differences that do exist will become sources of conflict, because these kinds of people, the ones happy to bandy about their presuppositions, believe on faith and tell everyone else who is and isn't a True Christian, are exactly the kinds of people who would cause fights over the tiniest points of disagreement.

You might be on to something. Perhaps Yahweh designed Heaven as a goof -- a great celestial coliseum where Baptists, Catholics, and members of other sects can fight it out for His amusement.

It sounds a hell of a lot more entertaining than any version of Heaven I've heard of so far.

[Ryantology]

I already have the explanation. People have failed to love one another. Do you have an explanation?

Yeah. Your creator is a total fuckup at the only job he has.

[Lek]

This makes me laugh when atheists say they would rather experience unabated torment in hell than unabated happiness in heaven.

It makes me laugh when people of the faith say that atheists are deserving of unabated torment in hell simply by virtue of the fact that we don't share your beliefs. If there truly is a just god and it really is as it's often described (perfectly moral etc), that attitude right there is surely a one-way ticket to this hell of which you speak.

And why should anyone in hell be tormented anyway? God isn't around to do the work, and the devil surely isn't going to do it - it's going to reward people who acted against your god, seeing as it's your god's rival. What, I'm going to do my enemy's job for him and punish you for crimes against him? I'd want my head read.

Actually the punishment in hell is not caused by the devil. He's also getting punished there.

---

I already have the explanation. People have failed to love one another. Do you have an explanation?

Yeah. Your creator is a total fuckup at the only job he has.

So your explanation is that a God who doesn't exist caused all the problems. Pretty sharp.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

According to the Biblical fairy tale hell is just a temporary holding pen until Judgment Day. Until Judgment Day people spend time in either hell, the sea, or death. Then at Judgment Day everyone gets out of those places and get a ticket to the gaudy bejeweled golden cube called New Jerusalem or they will get tossed into the lake of fire. Hell and death also get tossed into the lake of fire along with the devil, the beast, and the false prophet.

So remember, even if you go to hell its just temporary. You will get out. If you don't want to go to hell then go to the sea or kick back with death. According to the fairy tale you are conscious in hell and can talk to your buddies. It doesn't say what the experiences are like in the sea or death so they might be better or worse than the one in hell.

Of course if you get killed for your faith your soul is kept in a box beneath the altar. You don't get to do anything but whine about how much longer you have to stay in the box.

Aren't those some great sub-plots in the fairy tale?

[Cyberman]

Actually the punishment in hell is not caused by the devil. He's also getting punished there.

Convenient, but you still haven't addressed why you and fellow faithful think we non-believers are deserving of punishment simply for not sharing your beliefs.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

In accordance with the idea presented in Deuteronomy 29:18, unfaithful people produce bitter, poisonous fruit. So naturally it's something that should be eliminated for the health of the body. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=CEV

[Bob Kelso]

Yeah. Your creator is a total fuckup at the only job he has.

So your explanation is that a God who doesn't exist caused all the problems. Pretty sharp.

Are... you... I...

How do you function?

[Esquilax]

So your explanation is that a God who doesn't exist caused all the problems. Pretty sharp.

Aww, someone never got taught how to use their imagination as a kid!

I mean, that's gotta be the only reason that you'd be so nonplussed when other people are capable of using theirs, right? It couldn't be that you thought what you just said counted as a gotcha question, could it?

No, that'd be fucking moronic.