Open to all-would you sacrifice your child if god told you to?

[Godscreated]

God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice Issac and, if anyone cared to carefully read the story you would understand that Issac understood what God was asking, hint, God was asking for Abraham's trust and faith and that is what he gave to God. That's why God called him righteous.
Someone said that the Christians would dodge the question by saying God would not ask that of us. Well call it a dodge if you like but, I know my God well enough to know He would not ask that of Christians, I know that through trust and faith. This is why I can live a very comfortable and reasonable life with God, I know He is smarter than the atheist here that think God would ask us such. I do not have to worry about such silly and unreasonable things atheist pull out of their butts.

GC

[Esquilax]

You're equivocating.

No, that's what you're doing by comparing this with Loki at all: Loki commands the people to kneel after a clear show of force, while holding a weapon, in a threatening manner, representing clear duress. The question being asked is whether one would obey an order from god, with the format and presentation of that order recalling the story of Abraham and Isaac from the bible, a story where no duress was used.

You're equivocating by accusing the atheists here of faux bravado that wouldn't hold up in the face of an actual threat, in a thread where we aren't talking about being threatened. In fact, the OP specifies that this would just be a message you get in your head, and so I think my question stands: can't you see a difference between being commanded to do something by a weapon wielding supernatural agent ala Loki, versus simply being told to do something in a neutral setting by a similar agent?

Because, to be clear, I don't think the question has much to do with our supposed courage under duress anyway. I read it as concerning our morals generally, and whether we'd be willing to perform an action that we'd ordinarily consider heinous because it was directed by a supposedly superior moral source.

Someone said that the Christians would dodge the question by saying God would not ask that of us. Well call it a dodge if you like but, I know my God well enough to know He would not ask that of Christians, I know that through trust and faith. This is why I can live a very comfortable and reasonable life with God, I know He is smarter than the atheist here that think God would ask us such. I do not have to worry about such silly and unreasonable things atheist pull out of their butts.

The reason it's a dodge has nothing to do with the feasibility of the hypothetical itself, but the fact that "he wouldn't do that," doesn't address the point of the issue. The question wasn't about god, it's about you, the person being asked: the important part isn't "would god actually do this?" it's "how far astray from what you understand your morals to be would you go, if directed to by your ultimate authority figure?"

[Mudhammam]

God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice Issac and, if anyone cared to carefully read the story you would understand that Issac understood what God was asking, hint, God was asking for Abraham's trust and faith and that is what he gave to God. That's why God called him righteous
GC

God could just ask for Abraham's trust and faith...or he could ask for a human sacrifice. I wonder which one the biblical god prefers?

[Tonus]

If a god asked something so horrific of you, I'd hope one would have the common sense to question what type of ass they are worshiping and put him/her on ignore.

But if you suddenly learn that god does exist, that changes things. It also introduces a shitload of context. I think that for most atheists, the question comes across as "if the god of the Bible asked you to do this, would you?" But to the atheist, that god is incomprehensible; he comes off as a petulant bully who reflects some of the worst qualities of men. He doesn't really seem like a god to me, for example. So it is akin to an obnoxious neighbor asking me to do something horrible for his amusement. The answer, not surprisingly, is "fuck off, asshole."

But what if there is a god, and it isn't any of the ones we hear about? What if he actually is that brilliant intellect that theists think their god is? What if his explanations for the way things are make pretty good sense? What if what he is asking you to do really does work out for the best for everyone involved? What then?

Of course, that second paragraph is what most Christians really do believe about their god, so for them the answer to the question should always be "yes, I would sacrifice my child. Or kill someone. Or whatever god asks of me." Because otherwise you are doubting that your god is what you always present him to be.

[Losty]

I just think of the scene with Loki in Germany and how everybody kneels to Loki. One guy has the courage to stand up. In these threads, the atheists are all like, "Well, I'm that one guy." I'm sorry. I don't buy it. I've played enough poker to know the difference between the talk and the action. I just think a lot of the responses to these threads are all talk and no trouser.

You obviously do not have children. In other things I would agree with you. If there is a person with a gun to my head, there are not a lot of things they could ask of me that I would refuse. I don't claim to be brave or courageous. My only claim is that I have 3 children who I brought into this world. They are mine and I love them more than I could ever describe to you. I would die rather than let someone harm them and I have the physical scars to prove that. There is no person or god or anything scary enough to convince me to harm my children. If there were a god. Absolutely undeniably real and it were to order me to shoot you in the face I would do so shamefully, but without hesitation. If it were some big scary powerful monster like the one in the bible it could probably convince me to go on a killing spree, maybe even close friends and/or family members. I would be ashamed and I would hate myself for being so weak, but I would do it.
Not my children though. Absolutely not.

[Ryantology]

But what if there is a god, and it isn't any of the ones we hear about? What if he actually is that brilliant intellect that theists think their god is? What if his explanations for the way things are make pretty good sense? What if what he is asking you to do really does work out for the best for everyone involved? What then?

I would expect that whatever problems would be solved by the murder, could be solved in virtually infinite other ways by a supreme intellect.

The problem with Christians is that they want to attribute maximal stats to their god, but can't explain why God's problem-solving abilities in the Bible never exceed those of a somewhat clever animal or primitive human being.

[Esquilax]

God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice Issac and, if anyone cared to carefully read the story you would understand that Issac understood what God was asking, hint, God was asking for Abraham's trust and faith and that is what he gave to God. That's why God called him righteous
GC

God could just ask for Abraham's trust and faith...or he could ask for a human sacrifice. I wonder which one the biblical god prefers?

Yeah, actually I think this is another important point: god could have just decided to talk honestly and straight, but instead he opted to mentally scar a child.

Just keep that in mind as the apologetics begin to fly from the theist side.

[Tonus]

But what if there is a god, and it isn't any of the ones we hear about? What if he actually is that brilliant intellect that theists think their god is? What if his explanations for the way things are make pretty good sense? What if what he is asking you to do really does work out for the best for everyone involved? What then?

I would expect that whatever problems would be solved by the murder, could be solved in virtually infinite other ways by a supreme intellect.

That is the main problem with my hypothetical, and I think with any such scenario. It reduces the god in some way. He's indescribably brilliant yet resorts to such crude requests; either he cannot think of anything better, or he is somehow in a fix that requires the actions of a lowly human to resolve. I think what exacerbates this in the case of the abrahamic religions is that god is not to be questioned because he is perfect and so good that he is incapable of wickedness. So the believer must assume that he would never ask a parent to kill his child... oh, right, he did just that.

And while it is true that god rescinds the order and makes it seem that he never intended to allow the sacrifice to occur, he also exalts Abraham for his willingness to go through with it. The lesson here is not whether or not god intended for Abraham to kill Isaac. The lesson is that Abraham's willingness to do so without question was seen as a good thing in the eyes of god, so much so that he bestowed a title on Abraham ("Friend of God") and built a line of descent from him that would lead to the Messiah.

It doesn't matter what you think god would or would not ask of you. It matters that whatever it is, you would do it without questioning god. It matters that whatever it is, you would consider it to be a good and moral act.

[Esquilax]

And while it is true that god rescinds the order and makes it seem that he never intended to allow the sacrifice to occur, he also exalts Abraham for his willingness to go through with it. The lesson here is not whether or not god intended for Abraham to kill Isaac. The lesson is that Abraham's willingness to do so without question was seen as a good thing in the eyes of god, so much so that he bestowed a title on Abraham ("Friend of God") and built a line of descent from him that would lead to the Messiah.

It doesn't matter what you think god would or would not ask of you. It matters that whatever it is, you would do it without questioning god. It matters that whatever it is, you would consider it to be a good and moral act.

The other thing is that, when Abraham was ordered to do this, he never thought that his god wouldn't ask him to do it, he never even considered the idea that he might be being tricked by some third party, no: Abraham's immediate reaction was "yes, this order is exactly within the character of my god, better go and commit murder."

So Abraham, who actually saw god, didn't think this was a strange request; whenever a theist responds "god wouldn't say that," to these questions, not only are they presuming to have more knowledge of god from that old book than the guy who actually received direct orders from him did, but they're also contradicting a course of action that is lauded in the bible as noble. Because let's be clear, guys: saying that god wouldn't say this is questioning god, because god did say that in the past.

What you're essentially saying is that you'd fail Abraham's test if god decided to repeat it with you.

[Chad32]

God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice Issac and, if anyone cared to carefully read the story you would understand that Issac understood what God was asking, hint, God was asking for Abraham's trust and faith and that is what he gave to God. That's why God called him righteous.
Someone said that the Christians would dodge the question by saying God would not ask that of us. Well call it a dodge if you like but, I know my God well enough to know He would not ask that of Christians, I know that through trust and faith. This is why I can live a very comfortable and reasonable life with God, I know He is smarter than the atheist here that think God would ask us such. I do not have to worry about such silly and unreasonable things atheist pull out of their butts.

GC

The whole point of the story is to show that you should be willing to give anything to Yahweh. What other lesson would there be? Even if you trust that he wouldn't take your children away, you should still have the mindset that you would kill your child for him if he really wanted you to.

It's a dick move that no benevolent person would do to someone.