Life after death?

[GrandizerII]

Purplundy, do you believe Jesus actually saw the spirits of Elijah and Moses? Or do you believe it was just the disciples hallucinating?

[The Grand Nudger]

He is urging people to mature/realize/assimilate that potentiality in themselves.

maintain.......maintain.....main.....



For purple

Put very simply, God really wants to share himself with us.

That's drawing an awfully human blanket over the divine and it's motivations. If one conceptualizes the divine in such a human manner - and if one feels that the divine wishes to share itself with us, wouldn't one start to wonder how god feels about the contents of whats being shared - and what purpose his sharing might serve? Is god self conscious? Does god self assess and correct his behavior if/when he finds himself in error? When might god share that with us? Is god interested in our opinions about what he shares - or does he expect us to keep our mouths shut and be sympathetic listeners?

Obviously, I ask this only because human beings experience sharing themselves in such a way, and utilize that sharing in such a manner.

[Purplundy]

Purplundy, do you believe Jesus actually saw the spirits of Elijah and Moses? Or do you believe it was just the disciples hallucinating?

Ooh, loaded question.
I have no proof that anybody appeared with Jesus on a mountaintop. I have no proof that they didn't. I don't know.
The fact of that event has no real ramifications, so it's silly to argue either way. But if there is a supernatural that acts on this planet, anything can happen.

[GrandizerII]

Purplundy, do you believe Jesus actually saw the spirits of Elijah and Moses? Or do you believe it was just the disciples hallucinating?

Ooh, loaded question.
I have no proof that anybody appeared with Jesus on a mountaintop. I have no proof that they didn't. I don't know.
The fact of that event has no real ramifications, so it's silly to argue either way. But if there is a supernatural that acts on this planet, anything can happen.

Loaded question? It's based on the Bible. You make it sound like it's a bad thing that I'm asking you for your interpretation of the Scriptures.

So what do you believe? I'm not asking for the perfect interpretation. I'm asking for your personal interpretation of the passage of concern.

[The Grand Nudger]

Slight non-seq about the supernatural there. The existence of any particular supernatural thing wouldn't throw the doors open to -everything or anything-.

[naturestubbs1]

Google. Is. Your. Friend.

Did you seriously just tell me to find proof for your own claim?
By the way, I have telekinesis. It's true. Just Google it.

---

Elijah was clearly stated to have gone to heaven, although you will likely try to squirm out of this by stating that heaven in this instance just means sky. There's also a strong case that Enoch went to heaven even though the word heaven isn't specifically used.

And you will likely try to squirm out of this one by stating an unsupported fact.
You know that something's wrong when the Christian is the one asking for evidence.

---

Sorry people...I think we need to take a step back and recognize that you are talking about a BOOK.

Point taken. But at this point, we're not talking about belief. We're simply arguing over what words were written in a book, and I'm sorry if it's dragging on for much longer than is comfortable.
Maybe when people start bringing evidence to the table, we can talk about something more substantive.

---

I always enjoy a good debate and have never been one to leave the table. Just inserting a point that took me twenty years to figure out. I have had to resort myself to the fact that, in certain people, faith will always trump reason no matter how absurd. From my earliest memory it has never really made sense to me. I will continue my quest to figure out just how and why our wiring is so different on such a fundamental, primitive level. I am sure it is buried somewhere deep in our neurochemistry. Nature or Nurture??? I hope to find the answer someday but I am not going to place my bets.
This raises another question for you, Purple&Burgundy. Does your theology require you to believe that 'God' -not Jesus- is an entity in its own right, apart from people? If one believed that Jesus' God was only within each person, would that get one evicted from the theist tent?

Love the portmanteau.
I think we can agree that I would be a total ass to claim that some people aren't doing Christianity right because they don't agree with me on every point. I leave that task to the Spanish Inquisition.
I don't think that God is incapable of existing outside human beings as much as our morals are

BUT

The existence of a God is pointless outside human beings as much as morals are. Unlike Bill O'Reilly, I don't think God preoccupies himself with making the tides go in and out. Some would phrase it as "God loves us more than everything else." I'd say that the expression of God's loving nature (bear with me here, I'm sorry if this sounds like a Catechism) is something that only human beings are capable of channeling. Put very simply, God really wants to share himself with us.

[Welsh cake]

Did you seriously just tell me to find proof for your own claim?

No. I told you to read up about Enoch and Elijah.

Apparently you don't want to. Some Catholic are you.

By the way, I have telekinesis. It's true. Just Google it.

I googled you, all that came up was this:
http://atheistforums.org/reputation.php?uid=6235

So I guess you're nothing but a liar then.

[Whateverist]

Ooh, loaded question.
I have no proof that anybody appeared with Jesus on a mountaintop. I have no proof that they didn't. I don't know.
The fact of that event has no real ramifications, so it's silly to argue either way. But if there is a supernatural that acts on this planet, anything can happen.

Loaded question? It's based on the Bible. You make it sound like it's a bad thing that I'm asking you for your interpretation of the Scriptures.

So what do you believe? I'm not asking for the perfect interpretation. I'm asking for your personal interpretation of the passage of concern.

I think you'll find that roman catholics generally don't place a lot of emphasis on individual interpretation of scriptures. I think there also tends to be less emphasis on literalism, or maybe it is only a willingness to be led by those less literal than themselves. But I've only been to one catholic wedding so I don't really know. (My wife admires the Catholics for their ability to confess, repent and move on. No endless guilt.)

[The Grand Nudger]

IDK whateve, if the catholic churches own internal reporting/policing tells us anything - it's that catholics do indeed place an emphasis on their own personal interpretations. Even if they aren't willing to go to bat for them in the face of the holy see. Many catholics seem to be waiting, respectfully, for the papacy to "catch up" to them.

[Whateverist]

IDK whateve, if the catholic churches own internal reporting/policing tells us anything - it's that catholics do indeed place an emphasis on their own personal interpretations. Even if they aren't willing to go to bat for them in the face of the holy see. Many catholics seem to be waiting, respectfully, for the papacy to "catch up" to them.

True that. But my general gestalt of the catholic/protestant split is over the question of who is licensed to interpret scripture, with catholics preferring to leave it in the hands of experts.