One thing I find encouraging on here!

[DramaQueen]

I like how young Muslims in the developed world are starting to be accepting.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I like how young Muslims in the developed world are starting to be accepting.

I dunno man. I know a number of Muslims from my time at school , and the majority are nice guys. Bring up homosexuality though and there's generally a stifling silence in the conversation from there on.

[DramaQueen]

I like how young Muslims in the developed world are starting to be accepting.

I dunno man. I know a number of Muslims from my time at school , and the majority are nice guys. Bring up homosexuality though and there's generally a stifling silence in the conversation from there on.

I mean compared to Muslims in Muslim countries.
Especially the females

[Statler Waldorf]

What's this about "allowing?" In a free society, there's a moral imperative to support the freedoms of your fellow citizens. You don't ALLOW freedom-- you fight for it.

Wait, why is there such a moral imperative? Where did it come from? Which freedoms must I support?

I get the impression that a lot of anti-homosexual rights supporters tend to perceive homosexuals as sub-human; as being gay somehow means your worth is less than a straight person, as though sexuality is the sole determinant as to how others perceive you.

[Emphasis added by SW]

Question-begging epithets do not add any support to one’s argument.
Being gay (whatever that even means) is not the issue; it’s sodomizing other men that is the issue. The gay community has brought a lot of that perception upon themselves by hyper-sexualizing themselves, have you ever seen a gay rights parade? Let’s just say, they are a bit more lewd than my hometown Labor Day parade.

A lot of them act as though the rapture is going to happen because (for example) gay marriage is being legalised throughout the western world. Why I've got no idea. Scaremongering I guess.

I do not believe in a secret rapture.

1) The bible doesn't just say this. The bible says a man can have multiple wives.

Where?

The very definition of marriage has changed.

Nope, it’s still a union between one man and one woman.

Why should this be different for homosexuals?

It’s not, marriage is defined as a union between one man and one woman for homosexuals too, that’s the entire point. We do not arbitrarily define words for different groups of people.

The only real reason to be against homosexuals, either in general or to stop them marrying, is just pure hatred towards them.

This is such simplistic thinking. Does that mean that I hate polygamists because I do not support their “right” to get married?

We have scientific evidence that it's genetic, but that doesn't seem to mean a lot to some people.

As is alcoholism, that still does not mean I have to morally support the behavior.

And even if it was a choice, so what? I still see no reason to be angry about it.

No anger here.

I have always found it somewhat baffling from an evolutionary point of view, as a homosexual is not a rival for possible mates. Where does all this hate come from?

A better question would be, where does homosexuality come from? How does a condition that does not generationally progress the species get preserved in a population of organisms? Good luck on that one.

I honestly think that there's less hohophobia than there used to be, at least in Europe and, probably, in the States, at least among younger people.

Which part of Europe? Not Eastern for sure.

One problem is that America is a lot more religious than Europe

Good.

When the issue is phrased as 'everyone should have the same rights' it becomes difficult to keep arguing for the persecution of gay people.

Everyone does have the same rights.

[Diablo]

Diablo Wrote: I honestly think that there's less hohophobia than there used to be, at least in Europe and, probably, in the States, at least among younger people.

Which part of Europe? Not Eastern for sure.

No, the civilised Western part, as you could have guessed.

Quote: One problem is that America is a lot more religious than Europe

Good.

No, bad.

Quote: When the issue is phrased as 'everyone should have the same rights' it becomes difficult to keep arguing for the persecution of gay people.

Everyone does have the same rights.

No they don't. Gays should be able to marry, etc.

[StealthySkeptic]

I think they have embraced that they have lost this one. You'll always get a few lagging behind but in all its far more damaging socially to be openly homophobic than it is to be gay.

Far more ??! Being gay is not even slightly damaging, infact it is in some cases beneficial .

Well, no one can argue with the mental, physical, and emotional benefits of being comfortable with one's own sexuality. But I think he meant the damage comes from the complete morons who up until now have run this country based on what they think is and isn't icky.

[Statler Waldorf]

No, the civilised Western part, as you could have guessed.

All of Europe was “civilized” last time I checked. So let me get this straight, half of Europe, The US, South America, the Middle East, Asia, and Africa do not allow same-sex marriage and you think you are “winning the war”?

No, bad.

Seems to have worked out pretty well so far.

No they don't. Gays should be able to marry, etc.

Gays can marry.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I get the impression that a lot of anti-homosexual rights supporters tend to perceive homosexuals as sub-human; as being gay somehow means your worth is less than a straight person, as though sexuality is the sole determinant as to how others perceive you.

[Emphasis added by SW]

Question-begging epithets do not add any support to one’s argument.
Being gay (whatever that even means) is not the issue; it’s sodomizing other men that is the issue. The gay community has brought a lot of that perception upon themselves by hyper-sexualizing themselves, have you ever seen a gay rights parade? Let’s just say, they are a bit more lewd than my hometown Labor Day parade.

You don't know what being gay means? Homosexual? Up-hill gardener? Batting for the other team? Swinging the other way?

How bizarre. No wonder you guys object to it. Oh sorry. Cock in the arse.

As to the rest of your reply. Petty presumptuous. 'The gay community' like they're some sort of homogeneous entity that act in a uniform unilateral way?

You having an issue with men sodomozing other men (what about the lesbians?) is very much an issue; for you. I suggest you:

[Diablo]

No, the civilised Western part, as you could have guessed.

All of Europe was “civilized” last time I checked. So let me get this straight, half of Europe, The US, South America, the Middle East, Asia, and Africa do not allow same-sex marriage and you think you are “winning the war”?

No, bad.

Seems to have worked out pretty well so far.

No they don't. Gays should be able to marry, etc.

Gays can marry.

Brazil and other parts of South America allow same-sex marriage or civil partnerships, as do some US States. Compare the situation with 20 years ago and yes, we are winning.

If you like rabid hatred and bigotry towards a small minority. That used to be common with regard to the black community but then there was the civil rights movement.

I'm glad you embrace the principle that gay people should be allowed the same rights, including marriage, as everyone else.

[Statler Waldorf]

You don't know what being gay means? Homosexual? Up-hill gardener? Batting for the other team? Swinging the other way?

Nope, I’ve seen a lot of people who claim to be gay now who have dated and had children with women, so no it’s tough to understand what that means then.

How bizarre. No wonder you guys object to it.

If you truly believe it’s the way they are born then why would you expect a non-gay person to understand it?

As to the rest of your reply. Petty presumptions and irrelevant. 'The gay community' like they're some sort of homogeneous entity that act in a uniform unilateral way.

Actually they refer to themselves as that, I figured you’d understand that though.

You having an issue with men sodomozing other men (what about the lesbians?) is very much an issue; for you. I suggest you:

What about the lesbians? All homosexual acts are morally wrong.

This is why this issue is so boring for me and why the majority of the world does not bother with even considering it, the arguments for gay marriage are so poorly thought out.

Brazil and other parts of South America allow same-sex marriage or civil partnerships, as do some US States. Compare the situation with 20 years ago and yes, we are winning.

I’ve played RISK with people like you, it’s a lot of fun. They control like ten percent of the board and they think they are winning the game.

If you like rabid hatred and bigotry towards a small minority. That used to be common with regard to the black community but then there was the civil rights movement.

You really think that this is the same as what blacks went through? Nobody is enslaving gays, nobody is lynching them, nobody is spraying them with fire hoses, burning down their churches, bombing their schools…it’s no wonder the majority of blacks do not support same-sex marriage. That’s an offensive and downright absurd comparison.

I'm glad you embrace the principle that gay people should be allowed the same rights, including marriage, as everyone else.

They already had equal rights. If one gay man wants to marry one woman nobody is going to stop him.