Why knocking is so important.

[Anomalocaris]

You sure that wasn't just a monkey hitting drippy's keyboard while drippy was preoccupied knocking something with his incredibly dense skull?

[Jenny A]

Look Drich,

You are saying look for god as the Bible suggests and you will find him. You are ignoring the fact that the Koran says look as the Koran says and you will find him. And the Book of Mormon says look as Joseph Smith says and you will find him. And Rudolf Hess said look for Hitler in you heart and you will find him. Hear with an open mind and you will hear the spirits knocking. All of these results are incompatible yet people find them when they go looking for them. And people who go looking for meaning come out of one door or the other at random. It's therefore not reality. Reality works the same way no matter who's doing the measurements.

If we rebooted tomorrow, science might have different names for things, but it would arrive in the same place. Religion wouldn't. How do I know? Because scientific fact is often discovered independently in several places. The scientists argue over who was first. Religion is different everywhere. And it changes without new data. They argue not over who was first, but who's inner truth is right.

You won't hear a nuclear physicist say it was revealed to me that E=MC2.

[Minimalist]

You sure that wasn't just a monkey hitting drippy's keyboard while drippy was preoccupied knocking something with his incredibly dense skull?

No. Can never be certain.

[ignoramus]

Look Drich,

You are saying look for god as the Bible suggests and you will find him. You are ignoring the fact that the Koran says look as the Koran says and you will find him. And the Book of Mormon says look as Joseph Smith says and you will find him. And Rudolf Hess said look for Hitler in you heart and you will find him. Hear with an open mind and you will hear the spirits knocking. All of these results are incompatible yet people find them when they go looking for them. And people who go looking for meaning come out of one door or the other at random. It's therefore not reality. Reality works the same way no matter who's doing the measurements.

If we rebooted tomorrow, science might have different names for things, but it would arrive in the same place. Religion wouldn't. How do I know? Because scientific fact is often discovered independently in several places. The scientists argue over who was first. Religion is different everywhere. And it changes without new data. They argue not over who was first, but who's inner truth is right.

You won't hear a nuclear physicist say it was revealed to me that E=MC2.

It's frustrating, isn't it Jen.
You say it in simple logical terms but it comes still not compute.
Maybe we need to argue using their logic?

"God is not real because he spoke to me and told me he's really a parasitic alien from another dimension who survives by absorbing our consciousness energy"

Is that really any more ridonculous than the "official" popular version.

[Drich]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You either sensed your god's presence or you didn't. My point is that sensation, in whatever form may have been mistaken.

again, out of what I have said what makes you believe that I am privy to 'feelings' as my confirmation of God working in my life?

I told you I have been given insight and wisdom concerning my business and exegetical matters. Of which I never went to school for nor have I studied. I hold two technically heavy patents in refrigeration industry, my business was just move into a much much larger and more modern facility, all by the influence and provision of God.

Not to mention a stellar track record in answering questions in this web site and others.

None of which had to do with 'feeling' anything.
God presented me with opportunity and the knowledge needed and I was faithful to what I was given.

Aside from the fact that this claim of yours is obviously incorrect, you're ignoring how rude and arrogant you're being.

So I'll return you the favor and tell you that your feeling of your god's presence/spirit/holy ghost is strong evidence of psychosis.

Get the point now?

uhh, no. I unlike you do not read emotion into statements like the one you just made. I read it, proof it, and outline where it is in error. Or I acknowledge it.

If being rude is showing you how your wrong, then you are correct I will be rude. If being arrogant is not being apologetic because you bringing false information into a conversation and choose to stand by it, while I press the truth then you are right I will be arrogant.

For example you are standing by the idea that I feel God's presents, just so you can give me some fail sudo-pop psychology diagnosis. It like you have a goal of labeling me and you do not care what logical fallacies you just commit to make your sudo-pop diagnosis stick.

So allow me to dismantle your straw man in greater detail.
What I feel as a believer that I did not before is a greater capacity for love, contentment, peace and joy. While these are attributes associated with being a follower, no where in the bible does it say standing before God in his presents induces these feelings. Quite the opposite really. Standing before God or even angels generally induces tremendous fear and forces the person to the ground. I do not feel this way. Therefore I do not "feel" God. If your old religion taught you that one must "feel God" maybe that is the cornerstone of the foolish mans house you must let wash away, before you are ready to receive Him.

So one may ask if one does not 'feel' God how do we know we received the Holy Spirit?

Again through the external evidences of Spiritual fruit and Spiritual gifts. (Gal 5 and 1 cor 12) In my answer to you I have mentioned both. In neither list is "feeling the presences of God" ever mentioned.

no where in the bible does it say God is an Omni max God. If you believe otherwise please provide book chapter and verse.

Thanks for asking. See, I can do this A/S/K thing. You ask me something, I am happy to answer ... unlike an imaginary deity who comes to mind. Here, here's just a few references to your god's power, as listed in your holy book. I'm surprised you don't seem to know this ... I would think someone claiming to worship a being would study every scrap of material about him. Anyway:

Your god is omnipresent.

He runs everything, even down to the flight of sparrows. See also Romans 1:20

Being omnipotent, or all-powerful, obviously includes being omniscient, for if one can do anything, one can look into the future, or past, or into a man's heart. But, you don't need to take my ord for it; your own Bible says as much.

So, we have omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience, sourced from your Bible.

So... Your defination of Omni max does not including an all loving/Omni-benevolent God?
After all how can a god be "Omnimax" if a critical Omni aspect/Omnibenevolent has been left out..

I only ask because this Omni aspect normally attributed to God be the RC church and even most atheists has been omitted from your list of Omni attributes.. I mean you have book chapter and verse on the other three, but this Omni aspect was not even mentioned. Why is that?

On the other hand, after going through the above referencing for you, I'm even more convinced that you really don't know what you're talking about, you have an incomplete knowledge of the Bible, and that means that your perception of your god, however it came about, is even more likely to be wishful thinking and nothing more.

I'm surprised your god would have such a poor emissary. Certainly if you're going to spread the word, you should first know, don'tcha think?

I just love new members. They are often so sprie and sure of themselves.
Maybe before you declare victory next time, make sure I first concede the point. Meanwhile maybe take the time and answer my omni benevolence question, and then reconcile that answer to your claim of an Omni max God.

As shown above, you don't even know what the Bible says about your god, so any claims you make about his nature lack any credibility.

oh, man he just keeps digging himself deeper and deeper.. The other members of this board know what you are now just learning. That if I ask you a biblically based or even a theological question, it's rhetorical. If you honestly answer wrongly I will simply correct. However if you answer brashly or go to the lengths you have here I will so enjoy making you look the fool.
(To a degree)

No, your god doesn't exist, so after a time, I did the sensible thing: I put away my childish things, and moved on to more remunerative pursuits.

As I have established.. It would seem you only proved to yourself that you version of God is what does not exist.[/quote]

---

That's not to say someone steeped in self delusion could not use this method to confirm whatever he likes. But, again as I have illustrated some perfectly adjusted member of society could also use this method to find themselves a spouse.

I think that this is an important point. Researchers are finding that our minds use a great deal of self-delusion; the things we are taught, the things we are told, the things we tell ourselves, the things we experience... all of these lead our minds to form our perception of the world, and how we deal with the world. Most people who succeed are highly optimistic and self-confident, far more than was probably warranted. By the same token, most people who fail are pessimistic and lack confidence, and they do much more poorly than their knowledge and skills would predict. We are who/what we think we are.

I think that finding god comes down to how deeply invested you are in finding him, much in the same way that achieving success in any endeavor is greatly influenced by how determined and confident you are. It may explain why it seems common for people who are hurting or in some kind of need to be more likely to 'find' god: he's a great psychological crutch in some situations.

Or maybe when we are in need we meet the requirements of humility needed to finally hear God.

[Minimalist]

Maybe before you declare victory next time, make sure I first concede the point.

Drippy, you get beaten like a rented mule every time you show up here and you are too stupid to understand that you come across as an asshole.

[ignoramus]

Drich, what about the many boys and girls here who were religious for most of their lives but aren't now. Did they find god?
Is it possible in your mind that someone can truly find god and still reject him?

Or will it be a case of the "no failure" clause in your argument by suggesting that maybe they didn't truly believe or aren't trying hard enough?
Just curious to hear "your" version of events.

[jesus_wept]

You seem to have a real problem answering questions and addressing points.


Again you've missed the point, and the text you quoted doesn't actually say what dark matter is... in the future it might be worth learning to comprehend the English language before posting, unless you actually want people to think you're an idiot who isnt worth arguing with?

I also notice your god was unable to answer the question so you have unintentionally proven my point, whether you like it or not.

Thanks for the laughs but I'm afraid I dont think much else needs to be said, so I shall simply bid you farewell and leave you to your delusion of being god's special little snowflake.

---

I cant leave this thread without adding that every time I look at the thread title I think of this old joke.

Knock knock
"Who's there?"
"Jesus"
"What do you want?"
"To save you"
"What from?"
"From what I'm going to do to you if you dont let me in!"

Dark matter IS A THEORY!

Evidently you and your god did not know that. (Which btw satisfies your little challenge.) You proved this when you went irate, and failed to understand what you were actually asking for.


Maybe you ment to ask for me and the God of the bible to give you the chemical composition of the material that the theory of dark matter covers. Rather than ask "what it is.. " Because what 'dark matter is' according to out smartest people is just a theory that my definition covered.
So..
Who don't know no English now?

Oh my dear lord, are you really this stupid? Or do you just think everyone else is stupid?

I'm going to go with you being stupid because most people would've given up after 21 pages of being told they're wrong and deluded, but not old drippy....

[pocaracas]

Drich "knows" he's right, because he was once in shit and then prayed and heard voices and his life got back on its feet, based on those voices (and lots of luck).

What he can't acknowledge is that his luck was just that, a fortunate series of events leading to a positive outcome for himself. Instead, he attributes that to some godly intervention.
I can't say that the introspection brought upon through prayer didn't play a role there... it must have.
But that's not the same as an actual god imparting wisdom or ability into Drich.
And he'll never see it that way, because he's convinced himself that it was an actual god that not only imparted that ability in him, it also made all the lucky breaks in his life happen up to his current status.


Also, being a part of a particular social group (in this case, a particular church) also helps with the so-important networking and acquisition of contacts to expand a business. And other people in that group trust you, hear you talk about what you're doing and what you need, talk about you to others who may require your services and "luck" happens.

Still, no god required, but belief in god is (for that particular group).

Many a business is conducted just outside church.
It worked for Drich... will definitely work for many other people. It doesn't make any god any more real. But it sure helps to think it is real.

[Tonus]

Or maybe when we are in need we meet the requirements of humility needed to finally hear God.

Desperation is not humility. If finding god depends in any way on our emotional state, then it's inherently an unreliable way to find him.