Be honest, am I going to hell for "my" atheism?

[robvalue]

Err... What?

I said I have to pretend there isn't so much suffering in the world, I don't pretend that there is.

I know it's there, but it's so sad that it crushes me if I think about it too much. Human and animal suffering. I block it out so I can function, so I can do my best to help. This is how sick the world is.

Erm, no one is offering me that. Who is offering this?

And no, I don't want to become deluded and actually think there is no suffering. I want the suffering to stop, I don't want my senses dulled. I'm really not sure where you're going with this! Sure, if I could cope better, that would be great. I'm doing the best I can.

[Lek]

Err... What?

I said I have to pretend there isn't so much suffering in the world, I don't pretend that there is.

I know it's there, but it's so sad that it crushes me if I think about it too much. Human and animal suffering. I block it out so I can function, so I can do my best to help. This is how sick the world is.

Erm, no one is offering me that. And no, I don't want to become deluded and actually think there is no suffering. I want the suffering to stop, I don't want my senses dulled. I'm really not sure where you're going with this!

I'm showing one of the ways that God demonstrates his love for us in that he gives us confidence and peace as we live our lives in this world. He then gives us an eternity of peace with him. I'm also demonstrating one of the tangible benefits of being a christian.

[robvalue]

If I was a christian, I'd really think my God was responsible for how shit this world is. I'd be more depressed than I am now. I'd think he was an utter bastard and I'd hate his guts. Making a suffering world and then helping me cope with it is not love, it's horrific sadism.

To me, what you describe is a placebo effect and a false sense of confidence based on undemonstrated premises.

How would that help me to pretend he exists?

You didn't answer, do you think he's omnipotent?

---

Oh my, I just can't tell you how horrific I would feel if I thought for one second christianity was true. It would be one of my worst nightmares. I'd be mentally destroyed, knowing I really do have an evil God working against me and my desire to help the people and animals of the planet. I'm so grateful that I don't have to take that possibility seriously. It's just an uncaring universe.

[Lek]

If I was a christian, I'd really think my God was responsible for how shit this world is. I'd be more depressed than I am now. I'd think he was an utter bastard and I'd hate his guts. Making a suffering world and then helping me cope with it is not love, it's horrific sadism.

To me, what you describe is a placebo effect and a false sense of confidence based on undemonstrated premises.

How would that help me to pretend he exists?

You didn't answer, do you think he's omnipotent?

Yeah. I think he is omnipotent. An omnipotent being is able to say that he is allowing his created beings to make choices for themselves. He can also decide to allow them to suffer consequences for those choices. He can also create a world that has diseases and natural disasters. He can also decide to be with us and bring us through that suffering. If he is omnipotent, then he knows what is best for us. And we, being not omnipotent, can't always perceive what is best for us. There is no doubt in my mind that the suffering I've gone through with OCD has made me a better person, and that reliance on God is a huge part of what has taken me through.

As far as helping you pretend he exists--that wouldn't do you much good anyway. The only to believe is to go to him with an openness and a willingness to accept the answer. You won't get an answer in words, but you will be convinced. If you've already done that and you have received no answer, then I must assume you don't really want to know or that you just don't want to follow him.

[robvalue]

Right. If you think suffering is a good thing, then God can instead just give you whatever bonus you get, but not have the suffering. He can do that. But no, he sets things up so that suffering is required. What a bastard!

But of course, suffering does not always make people stronger. Babies are born with AIDS and die a horrific death while their parents go through hell. If this is supposed to achieve something, it's about the most twisted way of doing it.

If I was God, I'd let everyone be happy all the time and there would be no suffering. As a bonus, I'd require nothing in return, no worshipping or anything. I wouldn't make diseases and disasters and kill babies and watch as people murder and rape each other. I'd make people only think about and be capable of good things. Free will to be good and to be happy. No raping in my world. And I'd make it so people can be as happy as they want without the need to suffer first, that is god's sick rule, and I'd abolish it. People can have whatever they want all the time. All the animals would be free to be happy and never be hurt.

Fuck the God of the bible, he is an evil shit. If he's omnipotent, then he's responsible for allowing every second of suffering to every living creature. And if it's supposed to be some sort of punishment, he's even more sick. I'll bite down hard on his ball bag, I'll stick a spiked bat up his rectum. How dare he punish innocent animals and children for what other people have done. He's lucky he's imaginary, because I would so own his arse if he showed up. I know like loads of 10 hit combos from tekken, he's dead meat if he comes round here.

I guess I'm just way nicer than God.

[Lek]

Right. If you think suffering is a good thing, then God can instead just give you whatever bonus you get, but not have the suffering. He can do that. But no, he sets things up so that suffering is required. What a bastard!

But of course, suffering does not always make people stronger. Babies are born with AIDS and die a horrific death while their parents go through hell. If this is supposed to achieve something, it's about the most twisted way of doing it.

If I was God, I'd let everyone be happy all the time and there would be no suffering. As a bonus, I'd require nothing in return, no worshipping or anything. I wouldn't make diseases and disasters and kill babies and watch as people murder and rape each other. I'd make people only think about and be capable of good things. Free will to be good and to be happy. No raping in my world. And I'd make it so people can be as happy as they want without the need to suffer first, that is god's sick rule, and I'd abolish it. People can have whatever they want all the time. All the animals would be free to be happy and never be hurt.

Fuck the God of the bible, he is an evil shit. If he's omnipotent, then he's responsible for allowing every second of suffering to every living creature. And if it's supposed to be some sort of punishment, he's even more sick. I'll bite down hard on his ball bag, I'll stick a spiked bat up his rectum. How dare he punish innocent animals and children for what other people have done. He's lucky he's imaginary, because I would so own his arse if he showed up. I know like loads of 10 hit combos from tekken, he's dead meat if he comes round here.

I guess I'm just way nicer than God.

Okay. If that's the way you wish to view life, go ahead. It just seems like a lousy way to live. We're just here on this rock by accident, dealing with all kinds of suffering and no way to change it--just victims of circumstance, trying to have science find another way for us to avoid the next disease or disaster. How can you live with any joy or have any real hope or peace in life?

[Iroscato]

Right. If you think suffering is a good thing, then God can instead just give you whatever bonus you get, but not have the suffering. He can do that. But no, he sets things up so that suffering is required. What a bastard!

But of course, suffering does not always make people stronger. Babies are born with AIDS and die a horrific death while their parents go through hell. If this is supposed to achieve something, it's about the most twisted way of doing it.

If I was God, I'd let everyone be happy all the time and there would be no suffering. As a bonus, I'd require nothing in return, no worshipping or anything. I wouldn't make diseases and disasters and kill babies and watch as people murder and rape each other. I'd make people only think about and be capable of good things. Free will to be good and to be happy. No raping in my world. And I'd make it so people can be as happy as they want without the need to suffer first, that is god's sick rule, and I'd abolish it. People can have whatever they want all the time. All the animals would be free to be happy and never be hurt.

Fuck the God of the bible, he is an evil shit. If he's omnipotent, then he's responsible for allowing every second of suffering to every living creature. And if it's supposed to be some sort of punishment, he's even more sick. I'll bite down hard on his ball bag, I'll stick a spiked bat up his rectum. How dare he punish innocent animals and children for what other people have done. He's lucky he's imaginary, because I would so own his arse if he showed up. I know like loads of 10 hit combos from tekken, he's dead meat if he comes round here.

I guess I'm just way nicer than God.

Okay.  If that's the way you wish to view life, go ahead.  It just seems like a lousy way to live.  We're just here on this rock by accident, dealing with all kinds of suffering and no way to change it--just victims of circumstance, trying to have science find another way for us to avoid the next disease or disaster.  How can you live with any joy or have any real hope or peace in life?

I would say it is self-evidential that he clearly does (at least I assume you're happy robvalue, forgive me if I am making assumptions).
I am also very happy with my life and the way it's going. Could be better, sure, but you can bet your arse I don't pray for it to happen. Iget off my backside and actively work towards it.
Here's my 'belief system' broken down to its core components, and handily numbered.

1) We are the result of 3.5 billion years of continuous, constant evolution, and live on a planet that is indecribably small in comparison to our universe. In all of this, here we are, going about our daily lives.
2) After we die, there is nothing waiting for us on the other side. It is quiet, it is peaceful, and you and your consciousness cease to exist.
3) Because of this, that means our time on this little rock is the only time we have to play with. There is no afterlife, so the best you can do with your situation is to live. Do what pleases you. Hang out with awesome people, share experiences with your loved ones, maybe find that special someone if you can.
4) We are all that we have, as far as we know. Whilst there is almost certainly alien life out there due to the overwhelmingly vast number of planets, they haven't visited us, and if they have they don't us particularly appealing. Only by coming together, joining hands and working towards the continual advancement and welfare of our species will we overcome our problems that we face today.

Believing in God is fundamentally childish, because it takes away some of the essence of who you are as a human being, and provides a comfort blanket that distorts your view of reality. Many theists argue the comforting aspects of religion, to which atheists tend to say; "sure, but comfort =/= truth".

If God wants to have a relationship with me, he would be wise to at least call me from time to time. Can he blame me for dumping him?

[Silver]

How can you live with any joy or have any real hope or peace in life?

Without god, quite easily.

[Iroscato]

Oh, and as for relying on science to solve the next disease or disaster...
Ever contracted smallpox? Didn't think so.
Ever suffered from polio? Me neither!
Ever had to cook your food and keep warm by using an open fire or the warmth of the sun alone? What's that? Electricity you say? Ah, alright then.
Ever caught an infection in your leg and then died a slow agonising death from it? No? Antibiotics, eh? Huh, if you say so.
Ever broken a bone and had absolutely no way of healing it or even seeing the state it's in to have some idea of repairing it? X-rays? Hah! What nonsense!
Ever had your house collapse on you? No? Wonder if basic architectural advancements has something to do with that.
In its relatively short time of existing in its current form, science has saved billions. Your 'God' has so far allowed around 90-120 billion humans to die during the history of homo sapiens sapiens, often in unendurable agony or horrific sickness. I know which one I have more 'faith' in.

[Lek]

Oh, and as for relying on science to solve the next disease or disaster...
Ever contracted smallpox? Didn't think so.
Ever suffered from polio? Me neither!
Ever had to cook your food and keep warm by using an open fire or the warmth of the sun alone? What's that? Electricity you say? Ah, alright then.
Ever caught an infection in your leg and then died a slow agonising death from it? No? Antibiotics, eh? Huh, if you say so.
Ever broken a bone and had absolutely no way of healing it or even seeing the state it's in to have some idea of repairing it? X-rays? Hah! What nonsense!
Ever had your house collapse on you? No? Wonder if basic architectural advancements has something to do with that.
In its relatively short time of existing in its current form, science has saved billions. Your 'God' has so far allowed around 90-120 billion humans to die during the history of homo sapiens sapiens, often in unendurable agony or horrific sickness. I know which one I have more 'faith' in.

I have no argument with you about the benefits that science has enabled us to enjoy and I wouldn't advocate discontinuing scientific research. We have eliminated many of the things which cause us to suffer. The problem is we still suffer. We've cured polio, and now we're we're working on AIDS and ebola. When we find cures for these, there will be other diseases. Cancer has become greatly more prevalent during the last 100 years. We still encounter natural disasters that kill thousands of people each year. Rob was talking about how terrible the world is, having all the disasters, diseases, and other terrible things. He stated that in order to get through life, he had to pretend that these terrible things didn't exist. I brought up that for those of us who believe, God ensures that we get through these experiences well. I have much peace and confidence knowing that whatever happens, l'll always be okay--even if I lose everything I own, or even die.

---

2) After we die, there is nothing waiting for us on the other side. It is quiet, it is peaceful, and you and your consciousness cease to exist.

How do you know this?