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RE: Trying to save people
August 18, 2014 at 10:29 am
(August 18, 2014 at 7:25 am)John S Wrote: This isn't the point of this thread but let me just say that the "being saved" doctrine is false. NO human being is "saved" until they die and then GOD decides whether they go to Heaven or not.
When people make the statement that they are "saved", what they are actually saying is that THEY have decided that they are going to Heaven. In other words, they are making the statement that they are above God and don't need Him to get into Heaven. To atheists this means nothing but to "Christians", this way of thinking is blasphemy - the WORST offense that a Christian can make.
Is that right? I mean about blasphemy? Would that be worse than genocide, for example?
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RE: Trying to save people
August 18, 2014 at 11:19 am
I don't care to "save" anyone from their beliefs. As long as you're not harming anyone else, you should be free to believe whatever you believe. If you are harming someone else(because of your beliefs) then your religious practices may need to be restricted but you should still be free to believe whatever you believe.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
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Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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RE: Trying to save people
August 19, 2014 at 6:18 am
I wouldn't say trying to save from ignorance is at the core for most. Politically I would say it's about equality. Religious morality should not be legislation.
"I'm thick." - Me
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RE: Trying to save people
August 19, 2014 at 9:55 am
It seems I stand very much corrected 
Apologies for my inaccurate assumption. Thank you for your replies.
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RE: Trying to save people
August 19, 2014 at 10:14 am
(August 18, 2014 at 7:03 am)robvalue Wrote: Really? That is interesting. Of course I include that as one of the important points for me as well.
Maybe it would be better to ask everyone what their individual aims would be with regard to theists? To me, freeing their thinking is important as well as the harmful effects.
For me pointing out the bullshit in their arguments, gods and religions is enough. I will expose their flaws and irrational thinking, but I won't actively try to de-convert them, that's up to them and none of my business. I will agressively attack theistic beliefs when they start to influence or dictate public/political decisions. Other than that it's not my mission to save them, I'll just point out weaknesses (Note - There are many).
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: Trying to save people
August 19, 2014 at 11:22 am
(August 18, 2014 at 7:25 am)John S Wrote: This isn't the point of this thread but let me just say that the "being saved" doctrine is false. NO human being is "saved" until they die and then GOD decides whether they go to Heaven or not. And you... don't find that terrifying?
As for the OP: I have no interest in "saving" theists. I am more than happy to live and let live, so long as they do the same. Most people that I've encountered certainly seem to leave their religion at home, with only a relative few wearing it on their sleeves. And the latter group tend to annoy everyone, theist or otherwise. But even them I can simply avoid or minimize contact with. It's the ones who want to legislate away the rights and freedoms of everyone else that concern me. I don't want to save them, I just want them to stop trying to "save" everyone else.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Trying to save people
August 19, 2014 at 12:28 pm
(This post was last modified: August 19, 2014 at 12:41 pm by Eel_LahjicK.)
Well put. I agree, there is this endless tug-of-war. It's just like politics, or even showing your friends new music or movies you've discovered. It's human nature to want to help, teach and show people the right way. Unfortunately, there is no right way, everyone has their own principles. However, in reality, these principles aren't their own. They're inherited from their parents most likely. That's why we're on here, to hopefully urge some skepticism, especially when it comes to ancient fairytales and mythology. Due to indoctrination, these poor people don't have a choice most of the time. They're not allowed to make up their own mind for a good chunk of their lives. People really need to look at their own religion as if they have just discovered it. I think most atheists would agree, religion is a poison to society, and I'd happily agree with them. Thumpalumpacus put it very well. I also think if their beliefs are kept to themselves and make them happy, then let them be. But...Parents! You need to learn to explain to your kids, that these are your beliefs, and that your kids have the right to believe what they want!!
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." -Christopher Hitchens- My Hero
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RE: Trying to save people
August 19, 2014 at 12:54 pm
(August 18, 2014 at 5:13 am)robvalue Wrote: Theists are frequently trying to "save" atheists from the eternal punishments which await them for their lack of faith. Salvation means much more than a "Get Out of Hell Free" card. It also involves delivery from the nihilism of ontological naturalism, the idolatry of scientism, the bondage of sin, and ignorance of your true Self.
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RE: Trying to save people
August 19, 2014 at 12:55 pm
Scientism. Good one.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Trying to save people
August 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm
(August 19, 2014 at 12:54 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Salvation means much more than a "Get Out of Hell Free" card. It also involves delivery from the nihilism of ontological naturalism, the idolatry of scientism, the bondage of sin, and ignorance of your true Self.
Surely you must admit that asserting that those without salvation suffer from these dilemmas and those who are "saved" do not is at least condescending?
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