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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 5:30 am
(This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 5:32 am by Michael.)
(August 19, 2014 at 10:25 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: (August 19, 2014 at 9:53 pm)Michael Wrote: There is also an intimacy of sex that is inevitably devalued by having multiple partners; as someone said earlier it simply becomes 'sport'.
Intimacy comes from emotional attachment. Sex is entertainment. Conflating sex and intimacy is just the church's teachings coming out. The most intimate moments I've ever shared have not been sexual. The best, most mind blowingly, holy crap I never knew anything could be that awesome sex I've ever had was with people I had no emotional bond with.
Keep putting sex on some kind of pedestal. You'll likely wind up disappointed.
And please don't mis-quote me. I didn't say it "simply becomes sport," I said it should be "considered a sport."
Sorry for saying that you said that sex "simply becomes sport" rather than it should be "considered a sport".
You say then that "Sex is entertainment" and sex should be "considered a sport".
And, yes, I can see a large part of our culture will adopt that very view.
I think that's sad, because it devalues something very precious. And so people will then enter marriage with that devalued view of sex, no longer seeing sex as intimate or the preserve of a special intimate relationship. I would question whether such a downgrading of sex, from intimacy to 'entertainment' and 'sport' would actually do much more damage to the hope of a life-time of marriage than restraining from sex before that marriage. I wonder also whether it is more men than women who see sex as 'entertainment' and 'sport', and perhaps more a view of those outside of faithful and stable relationships. I wonder if more women would see sex as part of an emotional, intimate, stable and faithful relationship, rather than as 'entertainment' and 'sport'?. If I get the time I'll have a look at the research literature on that one.
Anyway, that's just another view of things, from another culture.
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 5:36 am
(August 20, 2014 at 5:30 am)Michael Wrote: You say then that "Sex is entertainment" and sex should be "considered a sport".
And, yes, I can see a large part of our culture will adopt that very view.
I think that's sad, because it devalues something very precious. And so people will then enter marriage with that devalued view of sex, no longer seeing sex as intimate or the preserve of a special intimate relationship. I would question whether such a downgrading of sex, from intimacy to 'entertainment' and 'sport' would actually do much more damage to the hope of a life-time of marriage than restraining from sex before that marriage. I wonder also whether it is more men than women who see sex as 'entertainment' and 'sport', and perhaps more a view of those outside of faithful and stable relationships. I wonder if more women would see sex as part of an emotional, intimate, stable and faithful relationship, rather than as 'entertainment' and 'sport'?. If I get the time I'll have a look at the research literature on that one.
Why is it that you think "entertainment" sex and "intimate" sex are mutually exclusive, or that a haver of one is incapable of later enjoying the other? That's like saying that a person who enjoys mindless action movies will so devalue film that he'll be incapable of enjoying a genuine masterpiece of cinema.
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 5:50 am
(August 19, 2014 at 8:16 pm)Losty Wrote: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women? Promoting it? No, especially if it's part of a discussion of sexuality as a whole, with all options included in the discussion. To promote it would involve explaining why it's the better option and/or why sexual activity would be less desirable prior to a certain age or situation (ie, marriage).
Demanding it, with no other discussion of the issue and under threat of some kind of penalty? I think that is very harmful to both young women and young men, on many levels. Aside from shrouding something natural in a veil of mystery and fear, it takes away the option of making a decision from the person, which implies that they aren't smart or trustworthy. Any system that relies on chipping away at your self-esteem can't be good IMO.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 6:16 am
(This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 6:24 am by Michael.)
(August 20, 2014 at 5:36 am)Esquilax Wrote: Why is it that you think "entertainment" sex and "intimate" sex are mutually exclusive...
I was responding to GalacticBusDriver's response where he(?) drew the distinction: "Intimacy comes from emotional attachment. Sex is entertainment. Conflating sex and intimacy is just the church's teachings coming out."
I would see a Christian view of sex as one that would always hold on to intimacy, and often with entertainment as well. But to describe sex as 'entertainment' and 'sport', and separate it out from intimacy, certainly would appear to me to lack something vital for any marriage.
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 6:25 am
(August 20, 2014 at 5:50 am)Tonus Wrote: (August 19, 2014 at 8:16 pm)Losty Wrote: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women? Promoting it? No, especially if it's part of a discussion of sexuality as a whole, with all options included in the discussion. To promote it would involve explaining why it's the better option and/or why sexual activity would be less desirable prior to a certain age or situation (ie, marriage).
Demanding it, with no other discussion of the issue and under threat of some kind of penalty? I think that is very harmful to both young women and young men, on many levels. Aside from shrouding something natural in a veil of mystery and fear, it takes away the option of making a decision from the person, which implies that they aren't smart or trustworthy. Any system that relies on chipping away at your self-esteem can't be good IMO.
*Disclaimer* it's early and I haven't slept. -_-
Ok seriously. I completely agree with you, but I mean come on. Must you take the thread title so literally? It is clear in my OP and my following comments (if you bothered to read them) that I didn't mean the question literally. I explained exactly how and why I thought it was bad. Also, of course it's bad for everyone. Boys too. I just asked about girls because that's what the article was about and that's what I felt like discussing. Jeesh
[/crabbyLosty]
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 6:56 am
(August 20, 2014 at 6:16 am)Michael Wrote: I would see a Christian view of sex as one that would always hold on to intimacy, and often with entertainment as well. But to describe sex as 'entertainment' and 'sport', and separate it out from intimacy, certainly would appear to me to lack something vital for any marriage.
Well yeah, in a marriage.  But then, if you're in a marriage and you're only deriving intimacy from sex then I'd say there's bigger problems there than a devaluation of screwing.
It's a context issue really; if you're with someone you're trying to spend your life with then of course some intimacy is preferred, but putting sex on this pedestal where it's always gotta be this connective, unique thing misses out on everything else it can do.
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 7:48 am
What can it do?
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 8:41 am
Hah, I like crabby Losty. <3
(August 20, 2014 at 6:25 am)Losty Wrote: Ok seriously. I completely agree with you, but I mean come on. Must you take the thread title so literally? Sometimes I use the thread topic as a quote to show that I'm responding to the general idea in the OP and not to a specific comment in the topic. I may take the ongoing discussion into account, but sometimes I just want to give my thoughts on the original post and then I might respond to other posts separately.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 8:44 am
(This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 8:47 am by Whateverist.)
(August 19, 2014 at 9:02 pm)Losty Wrote: (August 19, 2014 at 8:38 pm)czúzyt ylgájla Wrote: So our females stay virgins.
"our females"
.. along with our chattel and other goods. Trade you some corn for that fine looking young female of yours. 
(August 20, 2014 at 6:56 am)Esquilax Wrote: ..putting sex on this pedestal where it's always gotta be this connective, unique thing misses out on everything else it can do.
I agree. Same goes for love. If you approach it only as something sacred and dutiful, your Jack is gonna become a dull boy.
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RE: Is promoting virginity harmful to young girls/women?
August 20, 2014 at 8:56 am
Virginity appears as a requirement from the time when contraceptives were not widely available.
Like others said, a child would require a father to take care of it and, without marriage, the father could be anyone.
And, with a child already present, the potential husband would shirk his responsibility towards the child as it's not his.... and, most likely, would never go as far as marrying the woman.
This can be a heavy blow in a society where marriages are mostly arranged.
Within marriage, there is a father figure... and the child grows up healthy. No problem.
Nowadays, it is a strange requirement. One that can lead to a lifetime of problems, or, at least, a troublesome marriage in the bed department.
One can even argue that such old-fashioned and skewed view of sex imposed on women can lead to poor performance and, eventually, infidelity by the other spouse.
Although... the sex for sport theory can also be invoked as a cause of infidelity, so, on average, infidelity may be on the rise...
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