Why Would God Hide?

[Chad32]

Speaking of Yahweh, according to the Bible he got so scared because of a tall tower and some iron chariots for some reason. Does this mean that said things were able to hurt him in one way or another? If so, he would have far worse things to be afraid of by now and a good reason to hide.

He wasn't scared. He was angry. According to the bible, we're not able to hurt him physically, but apparently we're able to hurt him emotionally. When God became man in Jesus, of course, he could be hurt physically; and he was hurt a lot..

Actually I believe he said that if humans made it to heaven, they would become like gods. So he was afraid of them gaining enough power to challenge him.

[Smaug]

Actually I believe he said that if humans made it to heaven, they would become like gods. So he was afraid of them gaining enough power to challenge him.

Yes, in Genesis he mentioned that after eating the fruit humans became like "us" (us reffering to him and, perhaps, other gods). He also said very similar things addressing the Tower.

As far as I remember, there was also a tree of Life and if humans ate from that tree they would have become some kind of gods (both knowing good and evil and immortal).

And I'd like to point out the anger fallacy once again. While you're in control you're calm. Being in total control (omnipotence) means no anger at all (assuming you have no mental issues such as spontaneous outbursts of anger).

By the way, why do they separate omnipotence from omniscience when discussing religious issues? Doesn't omnipotence already imply omniscience?

[Chad32]

Presumably they had to continue eating the fruit of the Life Tree in order to maintain immortality, since they weren't banned from eating it before. But yes, if they use the fruit from both trees, they could become powerful enough to challenge him. Originally I believe they considered Yahweh more like the Greek and Norse gods. Powerful beings, but not omnipotent.

Being all powerful isn't the same as being all knowing. unless you stretch the meaning of power.

[Smaug]

I don't really understand why a lot of believers insist on the omnipotent God. Of course logic is not something that rules in the world of religion, but the fallacies that follow seem to be rather obvious. Powerful beings are better in this regard. Their emotions and motives have more or less viable basis at least. But in case of an omnipotent being the creation tale and everything that follows start to look like a description of some weird 'experiment' held by an emotionally-unstable person.

[Lek]

In case you assume God of the Bible to have similar emotions as humans bear in mind that emotional reactions very much depend on subject's abilities, situation, self-confidence etc. Anger, for example, is in fact an emotion of weakness and impotence. If you're uncontent with some situation and you absolutely positively have power to alter it to suit your demands you have no reason to be angry. The more you're in control, the less you have reason to become angry at something. Yahweh, being omnipotent, had absolutely no need to feel anger at all. Nothing could get in his way and make him feel insecure, weak or threatened and thus become enraged. While in Genesis 3 he became rather paranoid and furious about the situation with the Serpent, Adam and Eve and administered very severe punishment while he could just revert the history to the point when the Serpent advised Eve to eat the fruit and change the Serpent's mind per say. Or alter their minds aposteriori. No need to be angry or to administer unproportional and unjust punishments.

I don't agree with your assessment of why people become angry. If I become angry with my children for doing something wrong, I can correct them so that they don't do it again. God allows us to act against his will by giving us each a free will to make our own choices. If we act against his will for us he can become angry or hurt. If you love someone and they act against you, you can also become angry or hurt. You're also giving your own opinion concerning what is disproportional and unjust punishment for God to administer.

[Chad32]

Claiming he was perfect and all powerful/knowing would surely make him seem better than all those other gods, but it hurt the religion in the long run. Now you have all of these atrocities written oiut in the bible. You can't just say he made some mistakes and he's really sorry, and will try to do better. Now you have to make excuses, or just tell people that they need to have faith that he really is a good guy. Or take the cheap way out and tell people there's nothing they can do about it, so they might as well get to groveling before he throws them in hell.

[Smaug]

The analogy with your children is not valid here. You're can try (with more or less confidence) to correct them afterwards, but you can't fully revert the consequences. If the consequences are severe enough or your children do one and the same bad thing more than once (which means that your parenting wasn't effective enaugh) you become angry. You're less angered with lesser ill-doings and more with more severe ones. And Yahweh is omnipotent which means that he for example could literary revert time and correct the situation. Or design the system so that there's no possibility for certain (bad) variants of actions. So, to sum it up once again: control = confidence = no reason to rage. The omnipotence thing is very tricky because it, to say so, comes also with divine moral responsibility. That, or the deity becomes an uber-Mengele to it's creations.

Speaking of free will, it's a subjective and a rather arbitrary notion. If we take it to the absolute than only the omnipotent God himself could have true free will. Humans, being physically limited, don't have completely free will.

[Lek]

Actually I believe he said that if humans made it to heaven, they would become like gods. So he was afraid of them gaining enough power to challenge him.

You might want to look things up in the bible before you make reference go them. The devil tempted Eve by telling her that if they ate the fruit they would become like God, knowing good and evil. That is what happened when they ate the fruit of the tree "of the knowledge of good and evil." When God banished them from the garden he said that they must not be allowed to eat from the "tree of life" lest they live forever. Obviously God didn't wish to allow them to live forever in their sinful state. One thing the bible never said was that men would become like God in any ultimate sense, but would only acquire certain characteristics of God, which we do possess.

[Smaug]

If God didn't wish to allow them to live infinitely in a sinful state he could have literary reverted the history to the point the Serpent told Eve about the fruit and make alterations to the Serpent's mind and character.

Also, living sinless apparently is a live of an animal, a 'vegetable' or a simple robot (considering the fact that Adam and Eve couldn't tell good from evil). Also being unable to tell good from evil Eve couldn't obviously tell that what the Serpent had told her was 'bad'. So it's Yahweh's design mistake that he blamed onto Eve & CO (the Serpent was also 'flawed' and He made nothing to correct it while He obviously could).

[Lek]

If God didn't wish to allow them to live infinitely in a sinful state he could have literary reverted the history to the point the Serpent told Eve about the fruit and make alterations to the Serpent's mind and character.

Also, living sinless apparently is a live of an animal, a 'vegetable' or a simple robot (considering the fact that Adam and Eve couldn't tell good from evil). Also being unable to tell good from evil Eve couldn't obviously tell that what the Serpent had told her was 'bad'. So it's Yahweh's design mistake that he blamed onto Eve & CO (the Serpent was also 'flawed' and He made nothing to correct it while He obviously could).

Okay. Since God is omniscient, he has read what you're saying here, so maybe he'll take your advice in the future.