My Thoughts On Militant Atheism

[Celestine]

That seems to be the case. Wouldn't you think the point is that they didn't do that by only fighting defensive wars?

And instead of calling the Arabs who conquered the Arabs Muslims, you call them Arabs. Yes, when people are being conquered, murdered, oppressed, and enslaved, perhaps I don't give their ecquisite military tactics the appreciation they deserve.

Yes, most of the modern world has given up on empire-building, though it took a hell of a long time to reach that point.

I never said they were defensive wars, nor did I claim they were. Why do I care if they were or were not?


All wars there are people being conquered, murdered, oppressed, and enslaved, the problem is that you're only associating it with Islam. Or at least making it seem as such from I can understand. This is happening even today with modern empire building. A simple class in Greek History could relate to you the astonishing similarities between the Athenian Empire and the Euro-American Empire.

[The Grand Nudger]

This is your own fault for allowing private interest groups to control your politics.

Private interest groups eh? You mean....things like faith based organizations? Agreed.

I don't think I said there weren't any, just that I didn't know of any.

Try some Cavarka. Course...the romans called the christians atheists - howsabout that for irony?

Democracy, possibly the most vile form of government that ever existed.

I know..I know...I long for a monarchy or dictatorship. Can I be His Highness Admiral General Rhythm? No...no, how about a theocracy? Can I be The Most Exulted Hand of God his Holy Rhythmness, Peace Be Upon Me?

[Esquilax]

I have little love for the United States or Americans, while I was in school I mostly taught myself, after I graduated I had to reteach myself many of the things my school had taught me, especially on patriotism and history. So I really don't care what Americans teach themselves, if they want to throw religion in on top of all the other garbage they teach themselves I honestly don't think it would make that much of a difference in their overall intellectual capabilities.

So, you start by claiming that religion causes no harm, and when I point out the harm it's doing to the education of American children, instead of just accepting the point you just dodge by saying you don't care? How profoundly dishonest.

You really don't know how much of a failure the education system is do you? Not only for America but Europe as well. This is your own fault for allowing private interest groups to control your politics.

Nice try, but I'm not American. And I know the education system is failing in key areas over there, in fact I specifically pointed it out because the cause of that is something in direct contradiction to your stated point here. The fact that you've apparently forgotten the reason you wrote this thread is rather worrying.

I don't believe in hell so I can that insult me?

It's not the existence of the place, its the belief that I deserve to be tortured, that my beliefs are so bad that I need to be hurt for all eternity, that's insulting.

Or perhaps I've just grown to tolerate religion far more than you have?

Why would you do that? What's worthy in tolerating something that only takes and gives nothing back to the world?

I don't think I said there weren't any, just that I didn't know of any.

If that was actually what you were saying, then what the hell are you doing coming here and arguing without researching and having all your ducks in a row? Why should we take you seriously, if you won't even bother to know what you're talking about before opening your mouth?

That's usually how humans operate. Threats and Insults go hand in hand you know? Religion aside.

So when atheists do it it's bad, and when religion does it you make excuses. Bloody inconsistent position to hold.

Threats usually come after when the opposing side has nothing to back their argument up.

Just be honest: you are a theist, aren't you?

Oh, and by the way? There was no "argument" to the threats presented in the bible. And in most cases, actually; you've got your claim backwards here. The threats come up as a replacement to an argument for the theists.

Okay let me explain to you what is going on.

This is an atheist arguing with a theist about religion.

Meanwhile in Africa, South America, and Asia Billions of people are subjugated to a life of poverty and near starvation to make Capitalism work in first world countries. Capitalism is the problem, Communism is not much better.

Yeah, because people can only care about one thing.

Do you live in a cartoon? We're fucking adults, we can apportion our attention.

[JesusHChrist]

From the title of this thread, I had high hopes of entertainment.

I have not been disappointed.

Now, all that is left is for the OP to confess to being a Muslim apologist and I'll shall be at peace before my gym time.

Confess! CONFESS!! It really is rather obvious.

[Clueless Morgan]

Jesus, in his own words, did not come to abolish the old laws, many of which detail the ways in which unbelievers are to be killed. Jesus also introduced the concept of hell, as a place where unbelievers go, and I humbly suggest that "you should be tortured for eternity for your beliefs," is a much, much more insulting statement than "your beliefs are stupid."

I don't believe in hell so I can that insult me?

Um....
--vv

Even though I am an atheist, I believe in hell, I define hell as a place of pure ignorance. You purveyor of misinformation and ignorance, how shall I see you other than in my form of hell? I sincerely hope that you will abandon your hatred,, for it has made you blind, deaf, and dumb.

Aside from the above, this has been a fantastically entertaining thread; I've read and enjoyed every single post so far. Keep up the good work.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Militant Atheism does far more harm than good and for any who call themselves atheists out there who believe that religion causes major problems in the world you are severely deluded to the political aspect of your world.

The notion that politics and religion are separate is a naïve one at best (at worst, it is a dangerous delusion). I grew up in a part of the world where religion and politics routinely manipulated one another to gain their respective ends, as when protesters at a Catholic school in a Protestant enclave called 6 year old girls '...you little Papist cunts.'

My own experiences aside, how can you claim that religion does no harm? Imams in Africa prohibited the use of polio vaccine, bishops in Africa routinely lie to lay Catholics about condoms and other forms of birth control, little kids all over the world are inculcated in the belief that their religion is better because God loves them best. If this isn't harm, what DO you consider harm?

Militant Atheists seek to insult and belittle religious people

Correct.

who find their religion above all else to be logical, if they did not find their belief to be logical they would not believe in it.

I'm not responsible for someone else's faulty logic.

This form of logic is not dependent on evidence but rather it is a matter of faith.

NO forms of logic are dependent on evidence. And it can be convincingly argued that if you accept a proposition on faith, you have tossed logic into the dustbin.

Further more you will never be able to argue against someone and win that argument, you will never be able to prove something for someone but they must prove it for themselves.

Not true in the least. There are far more de-conversions than conversions in the world. In other words, most atheists were theists at some point, whereas making the switch from atheist to theist is comparatively rare.

In essence every atheist who is trying to disprove religion is wasting their time when they should be focusing more on the political agenda of their dominions... at least if they truly wanted to stop mass suffering on a global scale.

You presume that some of us don't do both. Speaking for myself, I'm active both politically and anti-religiously.

All it achieves to do is create friction in a society where we should be living as a family, together, and inseparable.

Yeah, the thing is that no one in my family has offered to burn me alive for being an atheist. The same can't be said for all religionists.

Instead we divide ourselves, by ethnicity, by political ideologies, by wealth, and by spiritual beliefs. It is from this division that we are so easily taken advantage of,

Speak for yourself, luv.

and people like Richard Dawkins only seek to make the rift between us and our family deeper even if they themselves do not realize it.

I confess to not being the world's biggest fan of Richard Dawkins, but that's as may be. He makes cogent points and strong arguments in favour of atheism. As for this 'rift', I'm fine with it. I don't crash Sunday services, and religionist don't butt in on my weekly Atheists Backwards R Us meetings.

People in time will prove themselves wrong, making this whole militant atheism campaign a waste of time and if not a distraction and a scapegoat for governments to use to avert the eyes of the public from their political dealings.

I'm beginning to sense that your purpose here is more political than religious. OK.

I am not sure if this message will reach any of you, atheists in my experience are no better than theists when it comes to rationality.

Well, we HAVE to be better at rationality, because we have some. Wish-thinking and fear of death (the basis of ALL religious thinking) are by their very nature irrational.

All they managed to do was fit two pieces of a puzzle together in a puzzle that has over a million pieces.

I think you've got this backwards. An atheist looks at two pieces of a puzzle and says, 'I can't do anything with this, I'm going to search around and find more pieces,' whereas a religionist imagines whatever picture he like from the two pieces and - even though he KNOWS they're out there - refuses to look for any more bits of the puzzle.

There is so much to learn in this life we can ill afford to waste time in it.

I agree, but I hardly think the search for truth (atheism) is a waste of time. Religion thinks it already HAS the truth, so sees some sort of perverse joy in flogging a deceased equine.

So please reconsider your stance on religion.

Shan't.

xox

Boru

[Mister Agenda]

I have little love for the United States or Americans, while I was in school I mostly taught myself, after I graduated I had to reteach myself many of the things my school had taught me, especially on patriotism and history. So I really don't care what Americans teach themselves, if they want to throw religion in on top of all the other garbage they teach themselves I honestly don't think it would make that much of a difference in their overall intellectual capabilities.

Maybe it wouldn't, but at least that bit can be fought on constitutional grounds. I don't see why it should be overlooked just because we can't fix everything.

You really don't know how much of a failure the education system is do you? Not only for America but Europe as well. This is your own fault for allowing private interest groups to control your politics.

The mature thing to do would be to ascertain what someone doesn't know before concluding they don't know it. You have stopped private interest groups from controlling your politics? Surely I've heard of you then. In what country was this miracle accomplished?

I don't believe in hell so I can that insult me?

Only if you find the intent to insult more offensive than the particular words used.

Or perhaps I've just grown to tolerate religion far more than you have?

In what way does he not tolerate religion?

That's usually how humans operate. Threats and Insults go hand in hand you know? Religion aside.

That's not how humanists usually operate, and you've descended into a hive of humanism and skepticism.

Threats usually come after when the opposing side has nothing to back their argument up.

That's the point where we prefer to change our minds or leave out. We pretty much don't make threats around here. Greatly frowned upon.

The Big Bang is certainly just a theory, it ties in to nicely to religion, and I'm much more a fan of the Static Universe Theory.

So you've found a Static Universe explanation for intergalactic red shift and cosmic microwave background radiation? Or do you just pick what theory to accept based on preference?

And since you are so fond of railing against people on their ignorance, here's a tip: Colloquially, a 'theory' is about the same as 'an educated guess'. However a scientific theory is a well substantiated explanation of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

Nothing marks a person as more ignorant of how science actually works than to refer to a scientific theory as 'just a theory'. A scientific theory is made of facts, and explains them.

Okay let me explain to you what is going on.

This is an atheist arguing with a theist about religion.

Meanwhile in Africa, South America, and Asia Billions of people are subjugated to a life of poverty and near starvation to make Capitalism work in first world countries. Capitalism is the problem, Communism is not much better.

Yet here you are, arguing with atheists about them being too militant. You should be using your time to help people in Third World countries, what are you doing on the internet? Or is there some sort of fallacy involved with berating people for spending some time doing one thing as though it means they aren't doing anything else?

Already posted it, like I thought it took certain pieces while leaving out the rest the explained what the cause was.

Good work. Glad you had your Qu'ran handy. Mine is at home. There's some mitigation in the first verse, and there are other verses that encourage peace. Unfortunately, it's just as easy to cherry pick the nasty ones as the nice ones if your goal is to convince young men to throw their lives away on violence.

Democracy, possibly the most vile form of government that ever existed.

Except in comparison to all the rest that have been tried.

[Chas]

Nope. Religion is delusion. Delusional people can be dangerous.

There is more things to be delusional about than just religion.

And that has exactly what to do with religious delusion?

[JesusHChrist]

Here's a religion I could get behind:



Gives a whole new twist on the head/face covering "controversy".

What's that Mistress? Why yes, I am a worthless dog! You are so just in your correction of my evil thoughts!

[The Grand Nudger]

The trashbag ruins it for me. Then again, she might be hideous. She'd have to be pretty damned hideous to sour that body though......