Prove the bible is unnecessary, atheist / Prove it is necessary, theists

[MusicLovingAtheist]

I was just talking to my younger brother about the necessity of the bible. He says that it is the one thing in the world that is useful for combating "degeneracy". I pressed him on that, saying that homosexuals aren't degenerates. He said "The bible doesn't condemn homosexuality. People who aren't religious aren't against them for being homosexual, they're against them for what they do. What homosexuals really want is exclusive rights, not equal rights (same with feminists)." I told him they absolutely are against gays simply because they are gay and I told him to look up Leviticus where it says something like "if a man should sleep with another man he should be stoned". He said "it was probably the Hebrew bible". My brother seems like an antisemitic sometimes. He said something like "Why do Jews get to have their own term for people who are against them? They want exclusive rights.". He also said "Christianity is inclusive and wants to accept everyone. Islam and Jewdaism are the dangerous ones". He didn't use the words dangerous, but he said something along those lines.

We also talked a lot about how we both don't align ourselves with politics and that the country is basically run by corporations. We both agree on feminism (that it sucks and they just want exclusive rights). Homosexuality is a matter of religious dogma and it isn't a matter of exclusive rights bullshit like the feminists. He'd disagree with that. I argued with him a bit about how the bible is not necessary and people learn their moral values from learning the consequences of their actions and people develop empathy from a very young age. He said "I don't know about that" and that atheists "can" have morals. At this point he was just telling me he wanted to get back to his video game. I pressed him for a final question. I said "why is the bible necessary". He said "I could only give you my personal interpretation of why the bible is necessary. It's different for everyone." I told him that I would just ask him that final question and I wouldn't argue with him or respond (because I know he wanted to get back to his game).

What do you think of our discussion? Could I have handled it differently? If you're an atheist why do you think the bible is unnecessary? If you're a Christian why do you think the bible is necessary? If you're any other religion why do you think your scripture is necessary? I personally think it's unnecessary because it corrupts people. They can use it as a trump card to get away with almost social issue they want, even doing drugs (one church actually got away with getting a court order to do drugs because they said the hallucinogenics helped them get in touch with god). I think all this stuff is basically on a weak foundation of faith and the notion that god exists, which is incredibly weak, because there is no evidence. Not to mention that religions might use lobbyists to get their ideas represented in the government. So really separation of Church and state is a difficult thing to uphold. I see no good coming from religion. My brother would say that it's a good thing, I see no good in religion what so ever. One might even say that religion can be used as a source of comfort. I think that without religion one can be just as comfortable without it as they are with it; a person who has never lived without religion just can't imagine what it might feel like to not believe in god (which actually they do, because a person's faith can waver like crazy in most people).

[Mystic]

Where did you get this notion that feminism just wants exclusive rights as opposed to making things more equal?

[The Grand Nudger]

What a shameless dodge. Homosexuals are only known -as- homosexuals because of what they are -as homosexuals-. So yes, christians are against homosexuals for being who they are.

Exhibit A of why the bible is unnecessary. Your younger brother could have arrived (and probably -did- arrive) at his bigotry (regarding teh gayz, teh jewz, and teh muslimz) in a much less roundabout way.

I think you should have nailed your younger brother to the wall (who gives a shit whats in the bible? It's the contents of his head that ought to be troubling). Maybe, coming from family, it would have some impact. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

[MusicLovingAtheist]

Where did you get this notion that feminism just wants exclusive rights as opposed to making things more equal?

Look up social justice warrior or tumblr feminism. There's too many instances to name.

[Surgenator]

Where did you get this notion that feminism just wants exclusive rights as opposed to making things more equal?

Look up social justice warrior or tumblr feminism. There's too many instances to name.

Those 'social justice' warrior's do not speak for all of feminism. So you should through feminism under boss for some bad apples.

[MusicLovingAtheist]

What a shameless dodge. Homosexuals are only known -as- homosexuals because of what they are -as homosexuals-. So yes, christians are against homosexuals for being who they are.

Exhibit A of why the bible is unnecessary. Your younger brother could have arrived (and probably -did- arrive) at his bigotry (regarding teh gayz, teh jewz, and teh muslimz) in a much less roundabout way. Even though it is -actually in the bible- your brother believed that it was not - again, making the bible unnecessary in reaching the finishing line of said bigotry. I think you should have nailed your younger brother to the wall, rather than trying to pussyfoot around what is or is not in the bible. It's not as though the contents actually matter to him, he has his own fairy tales to spin...hilariously, about fairy tales.

I wasn't trying to pussyfoot. I was not being sensitive about his beliefs. I tried to press him as hard as I could on a lot of this stuff. I think I'm pretty amateur at arguing is the problem. It didn't seem to me like he was actually against gay people though. I think he just thinks they're all social justice warriors which I should have pressed him on that they're not. I did try though. I told him about how there is no anti discrimination laws and if he asks one of my friends who is transgender (who he has talked to) about transgender rights, she and I will tell him that they have no rights and are actually in danger in our country.

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Look up social justice warrior or tumblr feminism. There's too many instances to name.

Those 'social justice' warrior's do not speak for all of feminism. So you should through feminism under boss for some bad apples.

Absolutely true. I think it's good to recognize the inconsistencies of the use of feminism.

[The Grand Nudger]

Doesn't seem like he's against gay people eh? Just "degeneracy"...lol.

[MusicLovingAtheist]

Doesn't seem like he's against gay people eh? Just "degeneracy"...lol.

I was paraphrasing a lot of the conversation I think that we talked about gay people before degeneracy. He didn't specifically make the link to gay people and degeneracy. He just said they were looking for exclusive rights. I pressed him on that, as I added to my last post.

[The Grand Nudger]

Did he need the bible to determine that they were only after exclusive rights? Exhibit B. If he'd never read the bible, would he be a degenerate? Exhibit C. Has he actually read the bible and -is he- a degenerate? Exhibit D.
(lol, I can do this all night)

[MusicLovingAtheist]

Did he need the bible to determine that they were only after exclusive rights? Exhibit B. If he'd never read the bible, would he be a degenerate? Exhibit C. Has he actually read the bible and -is he- a degenerate? Exhibit D.
(lol, I can do this all night)

I've been pressing him on it ever since I last talked to you. I came back into his room and just asked him if he thinks homosexuals are degenerates. He seems to have a really hard time answering this question. He says "some of the things they do are degeneracy" but he dodges the question when I press him on what that means. He briefly said "they ruin the marriage institution" I said what is so important about the marriage institution? He didn't answer that, he just said "okay, that was irrelevant". I told him that literally the only thing homosexuals are guilty of is being attracted to the same sex and fucking the same sex. I explained to my brother that homosexuality develops at birth when the fetus is bombarded with estrogen or testosterone which determines all kinds of stuff about sex and orientation. I also pressed him on some stuff about transgender issues. I told him that they are literally in danger in our country. I told him about my transgender friend who got beaten up at school and decided to leave because of it. He said "I'm sure some people actually are transgender, like you're friend (who's my friend too) is probably legitimately transgender. My problem is with the people who try to make it their identity and the pride parades". I didn't press him on why pride parades are bad, which no in retrospect could have been an easy target. My transgender friend would get pissed if she heard my brother saying all this shit btw, I'm pretty certain.

He always seems to have a way of avoiding me on the issues of this stuff. He said he'd talk to me about it later. I let him have some space because I didn't want to become an invade instead of a visitor in his room. I'm still waiting for the next argument to ensue so I can have a real discussion with him about this.

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In that same conversation I was just talking about that I forgot to add, he also said "there's probably some people who are religious that are against gay people, but most of the country is protestant which is inclusive of lgbt people. That's not the only reason why people are against gay people.". I told him that it is definitely the biggest reason why they are. He didn't have a response for that. He just said "I already have my own ideas for this stuff". I told him I want desperately to understand his ideas. That was right before I left him alone.