Abortion not allowed

[Jenny A]

I'm very aware that the definition of Human has been amended to allow this practice to be 'legal'. I get it.

Actually the argument that a fetus is a person is rather new. Ancient definitions varied from person after the first breath to sometime after infancy. The practice of both abortion and prohibiting abortion is rather ancient. This is why ancient law Christian and pagan alike invariable assigned a lessor penalty for terminating a pregnancy than killing a child.

I think we understand more about fetuses than ancient peoples. I don't think breath has much to do with it. But brain development does.

[Chas]

Your experience.

How many fetuses have you experienced walking, talking, interacting, thinking, ... ?

I'm speaking of "being" which transcends walking and talking, which are actually "doing" and not "being". That is why I was adamant about the definition of "being" a few posts back - I was trying to avoid this exact misunderstanding.

It is only a misunderstanding because you keep avoiding the matter of a brain and nervous system. There is no human being without those.

[Bad Wolf]

It's called self-mutilation and it's considered a mental illness. The law imposes sanctions on mentally ill people, including longer hospitalization (sentences) for repeat offenders.

You are just priceless.

[ShaMan]

I'm very aware that the definition of Human has been amended to allow this practice to be 'legal'. I get it.

Actually the argument that a fetus is a person is rather new. Ancient definitions varied from person after the first breath to sometime after infancy. The practice of both abortion and prohibiting abortion is rather ancient. This is why ancient law Christian and pagan alike invariable assigned a lessor penalty for terminating a pregnancy than killing a child.

I think we understand more about fetuses than ancient peoples. I don't think breath has much to do with it. But brain development does.

Jenny - thank you for your thoughtful response. I am speaking of a more ancient understanding of life and unity. Where I come from, all life is sacred, and has been so longer than man has existed to challenge it.

---

It is only a misunderstanding because you keep avoiding the matter of a brain and nervous system. There is no human being without those.

I know you've been taught that. I understand.

It's called self-mutilation and it's considered a mental illness. The law imposes sanctions on mentally ill people, including longer hospitalization (sentences) for repeat offenders.

You are just priceless.

Thanks pal. I love you too (with or without feet)

[Jenny A]

Has anyone heard of the hippocratic oath literally it is an oath tzking by doctors saying they will value and take care of humzn life from the point of conception.

I have indeed read the Hippocratic Oath. It doesn't say quite that. But it does say this: "Moreover, I will get no sort of medicine to any pregnant woman, with a view to destroy the child." It also says, "Further, I will comport myself and use my knowledge in a godly manner."

What you have there is an argument from authority and very ancient pagan authority at that. It won't wash. What you need are facts and rational arguments.

[Chas]

Jenny - thank you for your thoughtful response. I am speaking of a more ancient understanding of life and unity. Where I come from, all life is sacred, and has been so longer than man existed to challenge it.

What planet is that?

It is only a misunderstanding because you keep avoiding the matter of a brain and nervous system. There is no human being without those.

I know you've been taught that. I understand.

No, I actually reasoned that out on my own. I, unlike you, use reason and evidence - not cosmic woo.

[Bad Wolf]

You can't defend your position and you know it. Your definition is useless and obsolete. That is why you continue to avoid answering questions.

[ShaMan]

You can't defend your position and you know it. Your definition is useless and obsolete. That is why you continue to avoid answering questions.

If you're talking to me, then I'm afraid that I've answered all of your questions. perhaps you should look to your frustration with those answers rather than my apparent inability to provide you with answers that agree with your pre-determined conclusion.

---

What planet is that?

The one that sustains the life it gave you, Earth.

[Jenny A]

So again my fingernail is a human being by your definition because it has human DNA

I said any living thing that comes into being. Your fingernail is dead tissue.

If I donate my kidney? Is that a human being. It's alive, and it has my DNA.

----Added later:

Is is it self mutilation to donate it? Does it matter if I know the donee won't live nearly as long as me and my remaining kidney?

[Bad Wolf]

If you're talking to me, then I'm afraid that I've answered all of your questions. perhaps you should look to your frustration with those answers rather than my apparent inability to provide you with answers that agree with your pre-determined conclusion.

My predetermined conclusions? Projecting much? My argument is based on reason, logic and evidence while yours lacks all three.