Call to recognize jihad as crime against humanity

[DeistPaladin]

And I have yet to hear a so-called moderate Muslim state that it is ok for a non-believer to desecrate a Koran.

Christian states did exactly the same thing. Because religious beliefs and politics aren't the same thing, and need to be kept separate for that reason. So that's no reason to condemn Islam.

Religious beliefs manifest in politics in ways so intertwined I'm not sure how you could possibly separate them. As people believe, so they will act. Even the "political motives" ascribed to terrorists have a religious cause, such as the establishment of Israel, the continued policies of Israel and the end-timer Christian support for Israel. I'm not sure how you think the two, religious beliefs and politics, could possibly be separate.

[Thumpalumpacus]

... and even their religious motives have political bases as well -- people use religion to cover many misdeeds.

[DeistPaladin]

... and even their religious motives have political bases as well -- people use religion to cover many misdeeds.

Yes. ...and to assist followers in carrying them out, overriding their conscience. Religion is not the only way to get good people to do bad things but it arguably is the most effective way to do it.

Religion provides an ultimate authority on morality, one that overrides human evaluations, one that can't be verified, and so can sanitize inhumanity and get people willing to do inhumane things in what they think is a good cause.

Religion demonizes opponents with a ultimate source of evil, one which can always be attributed to enemies. If you think your neighbor is in league with the devil, you may be capable of doing anything to him or her.

The Islamo-Christian faith in particular ratchets the stakes as high as they can be, with a faith-based scheme of eternal salvation. Hell is so terrify and life so transitory, trivial in comparison, that what is a little torture and killing in order to save so many souls from that terrible fate?

Admittedly, political and economic radicals can also commit atrocities if they think the ends justify the means. However, with these, the proof is in the pudding. There's a reality check that religion doesn't have. Communism collapsed when its adherents noticed that the promised worker's paradise never came. Some day, those who believe in trickle down economics might notice the same thing. Religion has no such reality check. Its rewards happen after we die and go to some place that can't be discovered while we're on earth. Nobody returns from the grave to say it's all bullshit.

[Chas]

And I have yet to hear a so-called moderate Muslim state that it is ok for a non-believer to desecrate a Koran.

Christian states did exactly the same thing. Because religious beliefs and politics aren't the same thing, and need to be kept separate for that reason. So that's no reason to condemn Islam.

Except that Jesus acknowledged separation of church and state ("Render unto Caesar ...") while Mohammed advocates theocracy ("[Allah] maketh none to share in his government." ).

[WinterHold]

What an intense atheist feast.
Did you sacrifice Aladdin or not yet ?

Anyhow ; ISIS consists of 70-100 thousand fighters only, while the whole Muslim population is 1 Billion, from these 1 Billion, the Iraqi Muslims/the Syrian Muslims/The Kurd Muslims are confronting these mercenaries & oil sellers calling themselves Islamic State.
So techincally, and literally, Islamists DO fight ISIS on the ground ; take "AL-NUSRA" front as an example ; they fight ISIS. so, please, let us not generalize, so poor Aladdin don't get killed shall we ?

Anyhow, Muslims lived side by side with humanity, we invented alcohol -for medical reasons-, we invented the concept of the camera -google it-, we invented windmills & gave the technology to Europe for free, we DISCOVERED COFFEE, we added a SIXTH string to the guitar, we taught Magellan to sail..so please.. your post makes me laugh.

Check the cherry blossom I always say, you'll see god's craft..or maybe outer space ? it's prettier out there. Full of wonders.
God is there. Just don't blame the Quran because it wakes up people to this fact.

Blame war makers & war economy ----> COUGH COUGH ..Uncle sam..

[jesus_wept]

. Muslims invented alcohol? Evidence please, I could do with a laugh.

[Chas]

What an intense atheist feast.
Did you sacrifice Aladdin or not yet ?

Anyhow ; ISIS consists of 70-100 thousand fighters only, while the whole Muslim population is 1 Billion, from these 1 Billion, the Iraqi Muslims/the Syrian Muslims/The Kurd Muslims are confronting these mercenaries & oil sellers calling themselves Islamic State.
So techincally, and literally, Islamists DO fight ISIS on the ground ; take "AL-NUSRA" front as an example ; they fight ISIS. so, please, let us not generalize, so poor Aladdin don't get killed shall we ?

Anyhow, Muslims lived side by side with humanity, we invented alcohol -for medical reasons-, we invented the concept of the camera -google it-, we invented windmills & gave the technology to Europe for free, we DISCOVERED COFFEE, we added a SIXTH string to the guitar, we taught Magellan to sail..so please.. your post makes me laugh.

Check the cherry blossom I always say, you'll see god's craft..or maybe outer space ? it's prettier out there. Full of wonders.
God is there. Just don't blame the Quran because it wakes up people to this fact.

Blame war makers & war economy ----> COUGH COUGH ..Uncle sam..

Muslims invented alcohol? Have you ever heard of the concept of fact checking or do you just repeat the drivel you're fed?

And how about some citations.

[Mister Agenda]

Was there a contest for most counter-productive idea to deal with Islamic extemism, ever? A jihad is a righteous struggle, by definition. It can be an inner struggle (the greater jihad) or an outer struggle against oppression (the lesser jihad). We shouldn't be dignifying terrorists and conquerors who call themselves jihadis by agreeing with them that they deserve the title. It's like calling the Crips 'heroes of the people'.

'Irhab' is the Arabic word for terrorism, 'irhabis' are terrorists, and they are already outliawed in all civilized countries. If we're going to use the Arabic terms for things, let's use the correct ones: ISIL is not a band of jihadis, but a band of irhabis. They WANT us to call them jihadis. We've been at this long enough that we ought to know better by now.

Hirabah is 'unholy war' or 'war against order', crimes against humanity.

Khawarij is that which that which is done by professed Muslims that is outside of the bounds of Islam, like Muslims drinking alcohol or stealing.

Mufsiduun are sinners and corrupters, the opposite of mujahadeen. Let's stop calling these guys 'mujahadeen', too.

Muharibuun are barbarians who are guilty of irhab and Hirabah.

Munafiquun are hypocrites who betray the teaching of Islam while claiming to be following them.

Murtadd is apostacy.

Takfir is wholescale accusations of apostacy, with a connotation that it is divisive and false. Pratctioners are called 'takfiri', and most Wahabbist leaders can be fairly described as takfiri.

So ISIL is not a group of jihadis engaging in holy jihad, they're irhabis (terrorists) who should be viewed as evildoers (mufsidoon) engaged in Hirabah (unholy war) and in murtadd (apostacy). We should stop legitimizing them by effectively calling them heroic Muslims. It's not that many new words to learn. The fucking muharibuun (bandits and war criminals) in ISIL are khawarij and it's time true jihad was made AGAINST them.

Thanks to Duke Scout on Military.com Forums for the handy glossary.

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Muslims invented alcohol? Have you ever heard of the concept of fact checking or do you just repeat the drivel you're fed?

And how about some citations.

Yah, alcohol goes back to the Stone Age. Five out of six ain't bad, though.

[abaris]

Religion is not the only way to get good people to do bad things but it arguably is the most effective way to do it.

Let's rather say, religion is the oldest way to get good people to do bad things. Religions are what we now call ideologies. And each ideology can change people into wild beasts if they fall for it.

The great murderers of the 20th century, Hitler and Stalin used, religious elements to bind theri followers to them. Hitler more openly, since he used christian phraseologies in his speeches, making them sound like sermons. But both advertised themselves as godlike beings.

[Chas]

camera

Muslims invented alcohol? Have you ever heard of the concept of fact checking or do you just repeat the drivel you're fed?

And how about some citations.

Yah, alcohol goes back to the Stone Age. Five out of six ain't bad, though.

Umm, no. Not the camera, not the guitar; coffee? Ethiopia. Attributing any of theses things to Muslims is inconsequential. They have nothing to do with Islam. It's a big 'so what?'.

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Was there a contest for most counter-productive idea to deal with Islamic extemism, ever? A jihad is a righteous struggle, by definition. It can be an inner struggle (the greater jihad) or an outer struggle against oppression (the lesser jihad). We shouldn't be dignifying terrorists and conquerors who call themselves jihadis by agreeing with them that they deserve the title. It's like calling the Crips 'heroes of the people'.

'Irhab' is the Arabic word for terrorism, 'irhabis' are terrorists, and they are already outliawed in all civilized countries. If we're going to use the Arabic terms for things, let's use the correct ones: ISIL is not a band of jihadis, but a band of irhabis. They WANT us to call them jihadis. We've been at this long enough that we ought to know better by now.

Or we could just call them terrorists and murderers. Pretty simple.