Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wrong"?

[Aoi Magi]

It seems there are some people who pay to get raped, something to do with the rush, or high or whatever, but if those scenarios can be termed rape, then they are morally alright.


<google makes me lose faith in humanity>

[Strongbad]

Is it always wrong to cop someone else's avatar? I vote yes. I've had this one for about four years...

[GrandizerII]

I'm very sorry. In the last post I seem to have not made myself clear. I apologize for this. The information I am compiling is a comparative study on Theistic and Atheistic values and convictions, and their impact on society.

Also since it seems someone took me wrong when I said I wouldn't challenge the belief stated, I guess we can do that in this thread too if you like.

So the question... Does absolute universal moral truth exist? Is there ANYTHING where it can be said that it is morally true universally?

For instance: "Rape is ALWAYS wrong" <<<This would be considered a moral truth. Is it universally true? Is it true even if society deemed that rape was perfectly acceptable?

I believe rape is ALWAYS wrong.

Keep in mind I'm a moral subjectivist so my beliefs (which may or may not be influeced by society) regarding rape trumps any conflicting moral standards set by society.

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It seems there are some people who pay to get raped, something to do with the rush, or high or whatever, but if those scenarios can be termed rape, then they are morally alright.


<google makes me lose faith in humanity>

How is that rape if they consent to it?

[Sterben]

I think the concept of a universal absolute moral truth on rape does not exist. It's the community that protects it's members from such actions, rape is rape and there is not much we can do about it. Now, if I'm in a position to stop a rape then I will, if I'm not I will not risk my life to protect a other. In the case of society and girls wearing such outfits in public, there painting a target on there ass. I work in retail and I see this everyday, woman and girls walking around in barely anything. Why don't they take into account a lot of men are savage animals with no self-control?

[Whateverist]

There sure is a universal, absolute moral truth if I say there is. Now all I have to do is find a way to enforce it.

[Sterben]

How can a society enforce a anti-rape culture without taking away creative rights? Look at how many books, movies, plays, and T.V shows based around rape? A lot of them are very well written, but only indented for certain minds who can separate a story from reality.

[Regina]

Yes I think universal moral truths exist.

Rape isn't suddenly ok just because a particular society may see it as permissable. Whichever way you cut it up, it's still a violation of someone's space and privacy. That doesn't change just because these people over here are ok with it.

I highly doubt a woman (or man) on the recieving end of a rape is suddenly going to be like "oh yes! My society thinks this is ok, so I'm going to enjoy it!" no.

I mean yeah on some things, petty "crimes" maybe, there is a grey area. For that I'd typically argue any "crime" where there is no real victim, or at least no physical living victim. I think we can agree on serious crimes like rape or murder, those are always wrong.

[GrandizerII]

Yes I think universal moral truths exist.

Rape isn't suddenly ok just because a particular society may see it as permissable. Whichever way you cut it up, it's still a violation of someone's space and privacy. That doesn't change just because these people over here are ok with it.

I highly doubt a woman (or man) on the recieving end of a rape is suddenly going to be like "oh yes! My society thinks this is ok, so I'm going to enjoy it!" no.

I mean yeah on some things, there is a grey area. I think we can agree on serious crimes like rape or murder, those are always wrong.

I still don't see how this means it's objectively wrong. As you showed in your post, feelings strongly come into play ... and feelings are subjective. A victim of rape may be traumatized by the event, but the rapist would have taken pleasure out of it. What is the objective basis for considering one side's feelings but not the other party's?

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How can a society enforce a anti-rape culture without taking away creative rights? Look at how many books, movies, plays, and T.V shows based around rape? A lot of them are very well written, but only indented for certain minds who can separate a story from reality.

Easy. Make actual rape a crime, but make it ok for creative works to depict rape in writing or illustration or simulation. Being anti-rape does not mean being anti-freedom of artistic expression (so long as no one is being harmed, of course).

This is already the case anyway in most Western countries, is it not?

[Regina]

A victim of rape may be traumatized by the event, but the rapist would have taken pleasure out of it. What is the objective basis for considering one side's feelings but not the other party's?

Well if we're getting technical, consensual sex isn't exactly hard to get. And even if it is, I dunno. Porn? Sex toys? Wank? Cold showers? There are alternatives... why does it have to be rape?

[Whateverist]

Of course, the real issue isn't whether or not there are universal moral truths. If their existence has the same standing as the suckling response or revulsion to snakes and heights, then yeah we all have something in common.

But it isn't as if some moral appraisals have more authority than others just because they are common place. Each moral appraisal has whatever significance it does to each individual for reasons we don't completely understand. How we weigh out our competing desires to make a decision isn't dictated by the objective status of some moral truths.