Non religious theists?

[Darwinian]

Religion is belief in a god or gods and the activities that are connected with this belief, such as praying or worshipping in a building such as a church or temple so therefore religious can be used to describe things that are connected with religion or with one particular religion.

How is it then that since I've been on these forums I've come up against quite a lot of people who, whilst claiming that they believe in God, follow the teachings of Jesus and study the Bible also claim that they are not religious or have no religion?

Is it that they somehow want to distance themselves from the uneducated, church going masses and claim some sort of intellectual high ground or perhaps they just don't like the stereotype that religion conjures up.

[Tiberius]

Because religion isn't belief in a god or gods. Religions like some forms of Buddhism are atheistic in nature.

Theism is the belief in a god or gods. Atheism is the disbelief in such things.

Religions tend to use one or the other as a core belief in its belief system, although what is more usual of religions is to have some form of belief concerning existence, the nature of the universe, meanings, etc. Religions also tend to have devotional rituals associated with them, and are largely connected with groups of people believing together, rather than any individual person's belief.

A person can believe in God, pray to that God, follow the teachings of Jesus, study the Bible, and still claim (accurately) that they are not religious in that their beliefs are personal and not part of some group dogma. They might well fall under the category of religion in regards to their actual beliefs concerning cause, nature, meaning of the universe though.

[Darwinian]

My opening sentence was a near direct quote from the dictionary.

http://www.google.co.uk/dictionary?aq=f&...q=religion

[David Henson]

I couldn't say whether these kinds of people always existed or are just more visible through the medium of the Internet, but it isn't surprising to me that more and more people want to distance themselves from organized religion or mass hysteria of any kind. People are getting tired of being misguided by religion, politics, and the media.

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Because religion isn't belief in a god or gods. Religions like some forms of Buddhism are atheistic in nature.

Theism is the belief in a god or gods. Atheism is the disbelief in such things.

Religions tend to use one or the other as a core belief in its belief system, although what is more usual of religions is to have some form of belief concerning existence, the nature of the universe, meanings, etc. Religions also tend to have devotional rituals associated with them, and are largely connected with groups of people believing together, rather than any individual person's belief.

A person can believe in God, pray to that God, follow the teachings of Jesus, study the Bible, and still claim (accurately) that they are not religious in that their beliefs are personal and not part of some group dogma. They might well fall under the category of religion in regards to their actual beliefs concerning cause, nature, meaning of the universe though.

Very well said.

[Darwinian]

Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

It seems clear that anyone who believes in a god and believes that that god created everything falls into the above category.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps they just don't like the label.

[Tiberius]

I don't trust the Google dictionary...for one it doesn't state any form of reference for the definition it uses.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

Dictionary.com (above) gives a list of different definitions from various actual published dictionaries. Wikipedia references the Dictionary.com definition in its article on religion. As I said previously, religion itself isn't a belief in a God...you can disprove that by the fact that Buddhism is a religion, or Scientology (in a vague sense). I have no doubt that the vast majority of religious people are believers, but it isn't an exclusive relationship.

[Darwinian]

That's a false syllogism isn't it? Religion may not necessarily be exclusively a belief in God but a belief in God and to follow, say, scripture is a religion and would make you religious.

[Tiberius]

No, because I never stated that.

For a religion you must:

- Have a set of beliefs regarding the nature, cause, and purpose of the universe.
- Have some sort of ritualistic / devotional observance.
- Optionally have a moral code derived from your beliefs / rituals that governs how humans conduct their affairs.

Just because someone believes in God doesn't mean they have a set of beliefs regarding anything to do with the universe, or that they have ritualistic / devotional observances. If they read scripture, you could argue that the first requirement is fulfilled, but possibly not the second (it depends on what type of reading / studying we are talking about).

To put it simply, categorising someone as religious is a complex issue. You can't simplify it down to "people who believe in God are religious, people who don't are not"...it doesn't work. Religions are more complicated than that.

[David Henson]

That's a false syllogism isn't it? Religion may not necessarily be exclusively a belief in God but a belief in God and to follow, say, scripture is a religion and would make you religious.

Well if you try and sort of lump anyone that believes in the power of the supernatural with anyone else who believes the same thing it can become somewhat like assuming that someone who believes in the power of the vote is the same regardless of political affiliation. If a person feels compelled to distance themselves from "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith" (Merriam's 4th definition of religion) that doesn't necessarily imply a specific veneration or religious affiliation. I think that is the sort of distinction being made. By a simple definition of religion, based upon common usage, we are religious, but take care not to make any assumptions from there.

So, to some people anyone who believes in God is religious and to others anyone who believes in anything is religious if there is, in an archaic sense a "scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness."

[Darwinian]

I didn't say that people who simply believe in God are religious.

I'm asserting that people who believe in God and follow the teaching of the Bible, believe that Jesus was the son of God, that God has a plan for his creation etc. are in fact religious even if they say they are not, which they have done here.