Voter ID laws and Marriage

[abaris]

The original idea of 'democracy' in this country was that only propertied white males could vote.

What the republicunts call "the good old days."

Well, it was the english law of the time. They simply kept it.

[Aractus]

I'm still waiting for one of you pro-IDers to tell me how homeless people can cast their vote if they are required to produce ID?

[Chas]

I'm still waiting for one of you pro-IDers to tell me how homeless people can cast their vote if they are required to produce ID?

See my post.

[Aractus]

Good God!

• "This election year, every eligible Colorado voter is getting their ballot in the mail. It's a system used by only two other states -- Oregon and Washington.
  
  ...
  
  "Those who still want to vote the old-fashioned way can do so, by bringing their unused mail-in ballots to a polling place and handing them in before voting."

Sounds to me like in the USA the homeless are not allowed to exercise their right to vote.

[Jenny A]

Good God!

• "This election year, every eligible Colorado voter is getting their ballot in the mail. It's a system used by only two other states -- Oregon and Washington.
  
  ...
  
  "Those who still want to vote the old-fashioned way can do so, by bringing their unused mail-in ballots to a polling place and handing them in before voting."

Sounds to me like in the USA the homeless are not allowed to exercise their right to vote.

I live in Oregon. I don't know about Washington or Colorado, but the homeless can vote in Oregon despite mail-in ballots. Persons without mailing addresses can have their ballots mailed to the County Clerks office and pick them up there. They can also have them mailed to a shelter, a P.O. box, a friend's house, or other accommodation address. Ballots can be returned by mail or in person.

Voting by mail has dramatically increased voter turnout in Washington and Oregon, the two states which have previously had vote by mail.

All ballots are placed in an outer envelope signed by the voter and the signatures are checked against the signature on file. The inner envelope containing the ballot is then removed for tabulating. It's a better system than requiring voter ID on election day.

However, I have one nagging concern and that is the guarantee of a secret ballot and fear of coercion. Once some years ago a co-worked bragged he told his wife how to vote and she voted the he told her too. I asked him how he knew, and he got very quiet. The thing is that in voting booth no one can see you vote. Now, with the ballot arriving in the mail, he could check his wife's ballot before she mailed it. Theoretically a parent or a boss might do the same. So far there haven't been any allegations of this type of coercion but it is possible as never before.

[Clueless Morgan]

Speaking of mail in ballots: There are more instances of voter fraud committed with mail in ballots than by typical voting booths. You don't have to show anyone an ID to fill in the bubbles on a mail in ballot.

[Heywood]

I often hear from the left that voter ID laws disenfranchise certain people who have difficulty obtaining IDs. Usually its minorities and elderly. A friend of mine complains vehemently about it.....how peoples rights are restricted and such and such.

Well if that is the case why don't the far lefties complain about ID requirements to obtain a marriage license? Marriage is a right too.....isn't it?

First of all voting is the right from which all other rights and interests flow. If minorities or the elderly felt that marriage license laws were overly burdensome, they would have little if any voice in changing that burden without the right to vote.

Next there are considerations of time frame and customary expectation. Production of a birth certificate, and other documentation such as marriage certificates and divorce decrees, not to mention death certificates for former spouses are all traditionally expected when applying for a marriage license. And they are documents most people have whether they drive or not.

Nor is there a marriage deadline that you can miss after which you don't get to marry, though for people who worry about children born out of wedlock there may be a non-legal deadline. Should you not bring the proper documentation the first time, you can go home and collect it even if that requires a calling county clerks offices in other states. Not so voting. If you don't have the proper ID on the day of election you are SOL for that election. Ditto registering for the election.

Finally, while I have heard complaints from voters disenfranchised by ID laws, I've yet to hear complaints from persons unable to wed because of ID laws.

Awesome Post Jenny,

You're one of the few posters who challenge my world view.

[Faith No More]

Well, in a quick search, I couldn't find the actual numbers, but I've heard the number of voter fraud cases is extremely low and nowhere near enough of a problem to warrant the attention that the Republicans are giving it. Now, if this is true, and you take in the the fact that this is going to affect a lot of legitimate voters that would never cast their vote for the Republicans, it's not hard to put two and two together and discern their motivations. And considering we live in an era where politicians don't do any actual governing and simply start campaigning for the next election the moment they are elected, it's not much of a stretch to believe.

[Heywood]

Well, in a quick search, I couldn't find the actual numbers, but I've heard the number of voter fraud cases is extremely low and nowhere near enough of a problem to warrant the attention that the Republicans are giving it. Now, if this is true, and you take in the the fact that this is going to affect a lot of legitimate voters that would never cast their vote for the Republicans, it's not hard to put two and two together and discern their motivations. And considering we live in an era where politicians don't do any actual governing and simply start campaigning for the next election the moment they are elected, it's not much of a stretch to believe.

Voter ID laws don't seem to have any effect on turnout...so they don't really warrant the attention the democrats give them. Democrats also only seem to be concerned about voter ID laws in red states like Texas but ignore criticizing voter ID laws in blue states like Rhode Island.

People do need to have confidence in an election and voter ID laws are an effective and clean way of doing that. I would rather have to show my ID then dip my finger in ink that doesn't wash off for a couple of days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink

[Clueless Morgan]

All bolding in this post is mine.

Well, in a quick search, I couldn't find the actual numbers, but I've heard the number of voter fraud cases is extremely low and nowhere near enough of a problem to warrant the attention that the Republicans are giving it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washin...d=all&_r=0

Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year.
[snip]

In Miami, an assistant United States attorney said many cases there involved what were apparently mistakes by immigrants, not fraud.

In Wisconsin, where prosecutors have lost almost twice as many cases as they won, charges were brought against voters who filled out more than one registration form and felons seemingly unaware that they were barred from voting.

One ex-convict was so unfamiliar with the rules that he provided his prison-issued identification card, stamped “Offender,” when he registered just before voting.

A handful of convictions involved people who voted twice. More than 30 were linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...out-fraud/

Voter fraud generally rarely happens. When it does, election law experts say it happens more often through mail-in ballots than people impersonating eligible voters at the polls. An analysis by News21, a journalism project at Arizona State University, found 28 cases of voter fraud convictions since 2000. Of those, 14 percent involved absentee ballot fraud. Voter impersonation, the form of fraud that voter ID laws are designed to prevent, made up only 3.6 percent of those cases. (Other types included double voting, the most common form, at 25 percent, and felons voting when they were prohibited from doing so. But neither of those would be prevented by voter ID laws, either.)

FOX News, of all news organizations, on Voter ID laws:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/...ter-fraud/

Several states adopted new laws last year requiring that people show a photo ID when they come to vote even though the kind of election fraud that the laws are intended to stamp out is rare.

Even supporters of the new laws are hard pressed to come up with large numbers of cases in which someone tried to vote under a false identify.
[snip]

"They identified a lot of fraud, but very, very, very, very, very, very little of it could be prevented by identification at the polls," Levitt said.

The remainder involved vote buying, ballot-box stuffing, problems with absentee ballots, or ex-convicts voting even though laws bar them from doing so. Over the same seven-year time period covered by the cases Levitt reviewed, 400 million votes were cast in general elections.

Voter ID laws don't seem to have any effect on turnout...so they don't really warrant the attention the democrats give them. Democrats also only seem to be concerned about voter ID laws in red states like Texas but ignore criticizing voter ID laws in blue states like Rhode Island.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/...ter-fraud/

Texas and South Carolina are awaiting approval for their laws from the Justice Department because of those are among that states with a history of voting rights suppression and discrimination.

Perhaps the reason voter ID laws or more contentious in red states has to do with the historic disenfranchisement of the minorities in those states.

People do need to have confidence in an election and voter ID laws are an effective and clean way of doing that.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...out-fraud/

Voter impersonation, the form of fraud that voter ID laws are designed to prevent, made up only 3.6 percent of those cases.

Please explain to me how requiring voters to show ID before voting would reduce instances of voter fraud.

I would rather have to show my ID then dip my finger in ink that doesn't wash off for a couple of days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink

If all you're interested in is reducing double-voting, the ink would actually be a much better way of preventing that kind of fraud; it's harder to get that ink off your finger than it would be to obtain a fake ID and head back to the polls for a second, third, fourth, fifth round of voting.

But, as with ID laws, no one is making mail-in or absentee voters dip their fingers in ink after they've mailed in their ballots. Even the ink doesn't prevent candidates from buying votes. Even the ink doesn't prevent election officials from "accidentally" loosing a box of ballots from a particularly right- or left-leaning county and skewing election results.