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Obamacare written to deceive the public.
RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 23, 2014 at 9:46 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: So we can forgive the Democrats at the time for saying, "if you say so" and going along. Their lack of courage in opposition to W's war should not be seen as if they were co-conspirators.

The democrats and the media went along because people like Bill Clinton were telling them that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

You forget about that part.



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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
Once again you're being disingenuous. That video was from 1998 when we withdrew inspectors, not FIVE YEARS LATER in 2003 when Bush II invaded. Bill wasn't doing much of anything while Bush & Rummy were beating the war drums. Also, no WMDs were ever found in Iraq so by your own twisted logic Clinton actually scared / persuaded Iraq into disposing of them.

The AF.org desperately needs a Most Disingenuous Poster award so you can win it every single year.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 24, 2014 at 11:00 am)Jaysyn Wrote: Once again you're being disingenuous. That video was from 1998 when we withdrew inspectors, not FIVE YEARS LATER in 2003 when Bush II invaded. Bill wasn't doing much of anything while Bush & Rummy were beating the war drums. Also, no WMDs were ever found in Iraq so by your own twisted logic Clinton actually scared / persuaded Iraq into disposing of them.

Jaysyn, if you took a written transcript of that Clinton Speech in 1998 and eliminated any identifying information about who gave the speech. Could you tell if it was from Bush or Clinton based solely on the content? It is a fact that democrats....including leaders of that party....were making claims of Iraq's WMD program all the way up to our invasion. The democrats "lied" every bit as much as the republicans. The message from the Bush administration was consistent with the message given by the Clinton administration. The message from the republicans was consistent with the message from the democrats. If America got lied too....it was by both parties. What is disingenuous is DP's claim that it was only the republicans who lied us into war.



"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 24, 2014 at 11:38 am)Heywood Wrote: If America got lied too....

Look jackass, we know who lied to everyone, it was the CIA. The fact that nothing has been done to this agency since then & they are still lying to us as well as our leadership is a fucking travesty.

The Iraq invasion was Bush II's fault. Full Stop. "Trust but Verify" is a GOP meme. The lack of punishment for the CIA is most assuredly Obama's (& Congress') fault.

I just can't understand why you continually try to shift the blame. No one here is buying your bullshit.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
Wasn't Robert Reich pretty deeply involved in the de facto partial repeal of Glass-Steagal, which played a big role in the Crash of 08? The fact that banks could now underwrite loans with little regulation put the economy at risk, it seems to me.

Ascribing blame for the Iraq invasion to Clinton is revisionist, though, inasmuch as it confuses a campaign of bombing strikes with an invasion. Both are acts of war. The latter is much riskier.

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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 24, 2014 at 11:59 am)Jaysyn Wrote:
(November 24, 2014 at 11:38 am)Heywood Wrote: If America got lied too....

Look jackass, we know who lied to everyone, it was the CIA. The fact that nothing has been done to this agency since then & they are still lying to us as well as our leadership is a fucking travesty.

The Iraq invasion was Bush II's fault. Full Stop. The lack of punishment for the CIA is most assuredly Obama's (& Congress') fault.

I just can't understand why you continually try to shift the blame. No one here is buying your bullshit.

I'm not trying to shift blame.

I'm disputing the claim that it was "just the republican's fault". This whole conflict....which started in 1991....and not 2003.....is a lot more convoluted and complex then the democunt cackling "Bush lied us into war" platitude would have us believe.

Last....If anyone is being a jackass here.....it is you. You got all butthurt by the long list of quotes from all those democrats. Had you not known they were democrats you would have thought came from republicans because you been brainwashed to believe the one narrative of history you've been spoon fed because you're too much of an idiot to get a well rounded view of history.


(November 24, 2014 at 11:59 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: Ascribing blame for the Iraq invasion to Clinton is revisionist, though, inasmuch as it confuses a campaign of bombing strikes with an invasion. Both are acts of war. The latter is much riskier.

Bush Jr....inherited this war from Clinton....who inherited this war from Bush Sr.

What is revisionist history is the democrats trying to pretend Clinton and the democrats had no hand in it. They most certainly did.
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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 24, 2014 at 12:07 pm)Heywood Wrote: This whole conflict....which started in 1991....and not 2003....

Uh huh. Keep on moving those goal posts after you've been made to look like a disingenuous fool. I don't remember anyone having a huge issue with the underlying reasons of the 1991 conflict. The 2003 conflict was a completely different story.

To say they were the same conflict? That's just desperation on your part.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 24, 2014 at 6:09 am)A Theist Wrote:
(November 23, 2014 at 1:24 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: No one said Americans were smart.Wink Shades

After six years of obama and the democrats they finally wised up. At least now our country's not on a fast downhill slide to becoming like Europe.

Europes great, we have a free at point of use health care and it costs less than your system per head.

Our governments aren't rabidly polarised.

And we have some real history not that started in the 14th century lark you have over there.

I am so glad I don't live in the US with your crazy evangelistic christians and overly right wing republicans. Have you seen them?
They scarey.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
(November 24, 2014 at 12:07 pm)Heywood Wrote: Bush Jr....inherited this war from Clinton....who inherited this war from Bush Sr.

While hostilities occasionally happened throughout the 90s, asserting that the 2003 war was "inherited" founders on the point that there's a pretty big difference between two or three rounds of airstrikes in any given year, and the deployment of 160,000 troops into ground combat with the mission of securing the entire nation.

Now, if you really need me to go into detail about those differences for your benefit, I will.

(November 24, 2014 at 12:07 pm)Heywood Wrote: What is revisionist history is the democrats trying to pretend Clinton and the democrats had no hand in it. They most certainly did.

Insofar as they voted to approve the 2003 operation, certainly. Insofar as they alleged WMDs, sure. Morally speaking, some Democrats -- too many, in my view (just as too many Republicans did, for that matter) -- supported the war, sure.

Insofar as those Democrats ordered the execution of the biggest foreign-policy blunder in American history, no, you're wrong. What Democrat took executive action to set into motion the invasion? Bush didn't cave to Democrat pressure. He didn't acquiesce to an invasion plan that was pressed on him by his predecessor, unlike Kennedy, say. Bush had every ability to say "No", and make it stick, and he didn't -- becauses he was the one touring the country and drumming up support for his invasion for the six months before it happened.

Denying that is revisionist.

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RE: Obamacare written to deceive the public.
Since we're on the topic of the Iraq war:

Quote:
Colin Powell demands answers over Curveball's WMD lies
Former US secretary of state asks why CIA failed to warn him over Iraqi defector who has admitted fabricating WMD evidence

Full article:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/fe...-curveball

Funny or not so funny part about it. The German BND, whose source Curveball originall was, warned the CIA that he's not trustworthy. They went along with the bullshit anyway.
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