Eternal punishment is pointless.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's why our minds are fallible, we do not trust in what God wants for our lives.

Why should we, if the claims of you and your coreligionists are any indicator of a gods desires? They're despicable...as described....by you.

[Godscreated]

@ Stimbo, I see you haven't gotten any farther along in life with others.

GC

[abaris]

I gave it in another post you were involved in, if you do not read and learn what I believe it's your fault.

GC

You gave nothing of that sort. You're going on about the son, the son, the son. So, is the son a different being? Are we talking politheism here?

You're dancing around the fire without offering anything other than preaching. What's the trinity in your understanding? Are they one or are they seperate beings? Do they share one spirit or do they act alone?

Quit dancing around the question.

[Godscreated]

How many more times are you going to ignore what has been stated, God loved the ones who will choose hell over heaven by the sacrifice of his Son for them. To give them the chance they ultimately have not or will not choose.

GC

Gotcha.

More religious white noise.

You understand nothing about our God.

GC

[Chad32]

---

The way of god doesn't SEEM wrong to us. It's empirically proven wrong. Slavery is wrong. Genocide is wrong. Blind, unquestioning obedience to authority is wrong.

You're trying to bring God down to our fallible level, God as creator necessarily has rights we do not. God doesn't ask us to blindly follow Him, unlike the scientist you put your belief in, why do you think He gave us his word. He does expect us to follow Him without questioning some things because we are to and should trust an omniscient being. Man made slavery and it was those idol worshipers that turned from God who did. As the creator of all life God has the right to take it back when He determines it's necessary. You have no empirical proof of anything about God, because you can't bring proof against something you believe doesn't exist.

The "terrible sin" you're talking about was us using free will. the whole point of freedom is the ability to do things other people don't like.

No, your wrong. The "terrible sin" was using free will to disobey God.
No, the point of freedom is to treat others with love and kindness, just as we want to be treated. I feel fairly certain that most of the men and women who have given their lives for this country would have to defend your definition of freedom, because that is exactly what they were fighting against.

Doing it without consequence, as long as they aren't hurting other people, is the definition of freedom. Freedom of speech is my freedom to say thing you don't like, meaning you don't get to kill me for heresy just because I don't buy into your beliefs.

Why would you believe I would want to kill you, I believe in "turn the other cheek" when it comes to my Christian beliefs. There are consequences for ever wrong action no matter how free you feel you are entitled. You slander someone and see how free you are, they may own all you have.

Obviously your god never wanted us to disobey him.

There's nothing obvious to that statement, what is obvious is you're desperate for things to say in this argument, so you just make things up. You should read and study the Bible before trying to argue with those who use it for their daily lives, it's important to us to have it right as we possibly can.

If so, he should have made us robots. Then we wouldn't have "sinned".

If He made us robots then where is the love in a relationship, neither one would exist if we were robots. If you were a robot you would find a way to complain about that too. Happiness and love with God is the reason for our free will, you haven't exercised that option, it's why you have no understanding.

If he wanted us to have free will, he should allow us to use it. If he thinks socity is going downhill because of it, the right thing to do is work out the problems to make society better. Not start killing people en masse.

Contradicting yourself in this one, you want Him to make things better and still give us free will to make mistakes. Trying to have your cake and eat it on this one, shame on you.
God did allow the use of man's free will and still does, that's why we are in the mess we are. God cleansed the earth of total corruption with the flood so future generations could come to know Him and the wonderful life He has for us.

Man has a fallible mind. We have no reason to believe that Yahweh's mind is infallible.

That's why our minds are fallible, we do not trust in what God wants for our lives.

GC

---

You said the great sin was using free will to disobey god, then said there's nothing obvious about the statement that he never wanted us to disobey him? He condemned us all to hell unless we beg forgiveness, because people disobeyed him.

Man did indeed make slavery, and Yahweh approved of it. Even when he was getting the isrealites out of Egypt, he killed the first born sons of slaves who didn't kill a sheep for him. Even when he told them not to keep their own tribe members for life, he made a loophole to allow people to do it anyway. There is no atrocity that man has done that Yahweh hasn't.

Your god commands you to kill non believers. Even Jesus said it's better to drown people than to allow them to lead others away from christianity. If you're not killing non believers it's because your morality is superior to your god's. Jesus' commandment to love your neighbor as yourself rings a bit hollow when he also tells you to hate yourself.

Why should I trust that your god is infallible, when I only get secondhand knowledge of him from fallible humans at best?

[Godscreated]

So I repeat my question for the third time: What is your definition of the trinity?

God doesn't disagree with what I said, it's you who disagree. You yourself know that God was talking about idols of stone and wood, money, love of self and ect.

No, I don't know that. Another one of your crowd of preachers claimed differently when presented with the same quotes. He was talking about christian politheism.

So, which is it? Make up your minds and come to a common conclusion. All I see are different takes on the same subject. So, who's right.

And once again: Your take on the trinity please.

Then like I told others you need to read and study scriptures and bring your proof from them if your going to disagree.

GC

[abaris]

Then like I told others you need to read and study scriptures and bring your proof from them if your going to disagree.

GC

No, you obviously have some kind of disagreement with your fellow believers. So answer me this: Why should your word carry more weight?

Fact is, you've branched out into 40.000 denominations and all your pastors sell you a different brand of snake oil. Yours is no better than that of anyone else claiming to possess the single truth.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Son was dead for three days, haven't you ever read the scriptures, if not why are you trying to arguing them, if you have you certainly haven't learned a thing.

Either your god died, and gave himself as a sacrifice; or he didn't. Don't point me to the Bible; I've read it and find it entirely unconvincing. I'm asking you, as a thinking person, to explain it as you understand it.

How do you understand this? Is your Christ both the son of your god, and your god himself?

If so, when he was killed, how did your god continue living?

Was your Christ only a representative of your god's ka? if so, why should his death be regarded as a sacrifice?

Lay out your thinking, in clear English. A sacrifice is meaningless if nothing is given up. Did your god die on the cross?

It's a simple answer: yes, or no. Did he die at Calvary?

[Godscreated]

I don't make fun of Jesus for being killed. I condemn Yahweh for killing his son just so he can have a loophole around his own rules. Or if you believe that Jesus and Yahweh are the same, pulling a useless stunt that did nothing but soothe his own ego.

I do not want an innocent person to shed blood for me. I'll take responsibility for my own actions. If your god demands eternal punishment for finite crimes, he isn't worth my worship anyway.

Again you just ignore what I've explained to you and make up your own ridiculous lies.
See you have no idea what you're saying, Yahweh is the trinity. Not only that man killed Christ, Christ voluntarily came here, He was not forced, there was a legion of angels at His beckoning, the Father would have let Him give up on us if that was Christ's desire. But as we know Christ chose the will of the Father. How does a omniscient God need a loophole, that's just not a smart statement.
Doesn't matter what you think you want, God's will takes precedence.
The blood has been shed for you and everyone else, how smart is it to ignore the love given for you, not very IMO.

GC

---

I gave it in another post you were involved in, if you do not read and learn what I believe it's your fault.

GC

You gave nothing of that sort. You're going on about the son, the son, the son. So, is the son a different being? Are we talking politheism here?

You're dancing around the fire without offering anything other than preaching. What's the trinity in your understanding? Are they one or are they seperate beings? Do they share one spirit or do they act alone?

Quit dancing around the question.

You're right this is getting tiresome and do not call me a liar, I did explain in another thread about the trinity, if you refuse to learn what I believe that's on you, if you're really interested in what I said go find it. It will be found in the Christianity part of the forum.

GC

[Chad32]

I don't make fun of Jesus for being killed. I condemn Yahweh for killing his son just so he can have a loophole around his own rules. Or if you believe that Jesus and Yahweh are the same, pulling a useless stunt that did nothing but soothe his own ego.

I do not want an innocent person to shed blood for me. I'll take responsibility for my own actions. If your god demands eternal punishment for finite crimes, he isn't worth my worship anyway.

Again you just ignore what I've explained to you and make up your own ridiculous lies.
See you have no idea what you're saying, Yahweh is the trinity. Not only that man killed Christ, Christ voluntarily came here, He was not forced, there was a legion of angels at His beckoning, the Father would have let Him give up on us if that was Christ's desire. But as we know Christ chose the will of the Father. How does a omniscient God need a loophole, that's just not a smart statement.
Doesn't matter what you think you want, God's will takes precedence.
The blood has been shed for you and everyone else, how smart is it to ignore the love given for you, not very IMO.

GC

Granted he wasn't dragged onto the cross by angels, but he certainly didn't want to do it. There's a verse where he asks Yahweh to "let the cup pass from me, yet not my will but your will be done". It was Jesus' desire to not do it, though I suppose being rewarded by his dad in heaven helped him stay loyal.

I don't know why Yahweh needs a loophole. I don't know why he decided to have a kid with a human, just so he could be tortured to death. Why was that the only way he could get over the fact that all free thinking people didn't worship him?

That's not love by any definition that I'm aware of. I didn't ask him to do it, I had no say in it being done, and I can't accept it with a clean conscience. I can't love someone I never knew, and I can't know someone by reading about him in a book written by other people.