Eternal punishment is pointless.

[The Grand Nudger]

While I would agree with your closing comment MM....I think that you picked the poorest possible example when you decided to go the ground leveling route between science and religion. None of those comparisons are actually going to stick.....perhaps comparing like with like, you would have made a better case for what I, again, think is a good point by the time you reach the end.

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...] but the delusion that somehow science delivers a better 'truth' is absurd.

The truths may or may not be equal, depending your own lights and how they illuminate your world. But science delivers facts about the observable world, something religion is particularly ill-equipped to do.

I've seen the phenomenon you're writing about myself; I've gotten it when my opinion cuts against the grain too. Your point, that the problem lies in human nature, is spot-on.

[GrandizerII]

For an all-powerful God to eternally punish a human is not so much vengeance as just pure malevolent sadism. Like a child with an ant farm who enjoys roasting the ants in a fire, just for being ants.

An all-powerful God who would oversee eternal torture in Hell for finite offences, as "sin" somehow conflicts with his "holiness", is really a sadistically sick puppy and quite a psychopathic tyrant deity, when you really think about it.

Why oh why do so many religions worship and glorify a God like that, who sounds like a much worse asshole than the likes of Hitler?

If God is such a (as you put it,) sadistic being, why would He wait for people to die to torture them, what fun would it be to torture the dead when He could torture people while they are living.

Sin is not finite, unforgiven it last forever, thus the justified eternal hell.

GC

Waiting is part of the fun ...

And plus they wouldn't really be dead dead according to the Bible, don't you forget that.

[FifthElement]

... what fun would it be to torture the dead when He could torture people while they are living.

Necrophilia

99.99% of us all do not understand it, but God, well, he works in mysterious ways

[GrandizerII]

... what fun would it be to torture the dead when He could torture people while they are living.

Necrophilia

99.99% of us all do not understand it, but God, well, he works in mysterious ways

Off-topic, but you look like Bruce Willis (if that's you in the avatar).

[Godscreated]

Man had gained understanding. Had his eyes opened. And it angered god. The only reasonable conclusion is that god didn't want creations that dared disobey, dared gain knowledge that he and he alone (through circular reasoning) deemed unworthy for them to obtain. He wanted them to be sheltered children in perpetuity.

And to point out a contradiction of sorts not often mentioned in this passage: death is one of the punishments received for the applebite (according to Genesis 2:17), which implies that before the sin, humans were immortal.

You're correct they were going to live for eternity, scripture makes it clear that sin leaded to death, no sin no death.

And yet when then see this curiously ignorant deity ("might"? Wasn't he supposed to know everything?) worried that humans might live forever.

God wasn't worried about them living forever after they sinned, He was worried they would live forever in sin, having to grow more miserable day by day forever, they would be living in hell without the possibility of forgiveness. Hell on earth. God's plan was to redeem man so they could return to a relationship with Him.

If they weren't immortal before the first sin, then death was no punishment.

Now you're getting it, keep looking and you can see more of the truth.

And if they were immortal before the first sin, why should there be created a tree of life and death,

Oops, now you have slipped back into not actually knowing what the scriptures say, you need to get these things correct if you plan on arguing against them. It was and is the Tree of Life, no death is associated with it. The tree of life was there for them to eat from, it wasn't put off limit.

and why should the deity worry that humans might become immortal?

Like I explained above, God did not want them to live forever in sin because they would grow more miserable each day. Every atheist that has talked about death on this forum has expressed they wouldn't want to live forever, ever wonder why, living in misery is something no one looks forward to.

GC

[Chad32]

For an all-powerful God to eternally punish a human is not so much vengeance as just pure malevolent sadism. Like a child with an ant farm who enjoys roasting the ants in a fire, just for being ants.

An all-powerful God who would oversee eternal torture in Hell for finite offences, as "sin" somehow conflicts with his "holiness", is really a sadistically sick puppy and quite a psychopathic tyrant deity, when you really think about it.

Why oh why do so many religions worship and glorify a God like that, who sounds like a much worse asshole than the likes of Hitler?

If God is such a (as you put it,) sadistic being, why would He wait for people to die to torture them, what fun would it be to torture the dead when He could torture people while they are living.

Sin is not finite, unforgiven it last forever, thus the justified eternal hell.

GC

Sometimes he doesn't wait. Ever heard of that one guy who did everything right, and still got tortured on a bet? Then we're expected to believe everything is all better since he gave the guy twice as much as he had. Of course all trust would have been lost between Job and Yahweh, and he probably spent some nights wondering what the point of worshiping someone is if he could screw you over at any time anyway.

Then there are the claims that Yahweh sends natural disasters to areas, whether there are good christian folk or not, because some of them aren't worshiping him properly. There's an atheist in this town. Let me send a tornado to wreck everything, including the lives of my followers, with no promise that they'll get rewarded twice over in this life.

The idea of them becoming more miserable in sin really depends on the sin. Yahweh has a problem with homosexuality, but if two men fall in love, and live their lives with that love, and the community doesn't ridicule them for it, they wouldn't become more miserable. Yahweh smiles on people going on a murderous rampage, killing people who don't follow him, but calls the love between two people of the same gender an abomination. Your god is messed up.

[abaris]

Then there are the claims that Yahweh sends natural disasters to areas, whether there are good christian folk or not, because some of them aren't worshiping him properly. There's an atheist in this town. Let me send a tornado to wreck everything, including the lives of my followers, with no promise that they'll get rewarded twice over in this life.

According to our good professor, he even sends devastating snow storms to certain areas because four jews have been killed in Israel. And the reason for that is the US government having found wanting in the discipline of Israeli ass kissing.

[The Grand Nudger]

Every atheist that has talked about death on this forum has expressed they wouldn't want to live forever, ever wonder why, living in misery is something no one looks forward to.

Ever hear the story of the man who was granted eternal life -but not- eternal youth or good health? Personally, I live in happiness, I'll likely die in happiness - with the minor caveat of whatever ravages time sees fit to enact upon me. However, if I had to watch my loved ones endlessly die, generation after generation - or if the food in my mouth turned to ash, as it were. If I never found surprise, never saw novelty...all of these things would have an adverse effect on my happiness. If I had to live forever in the presence of your cunt of a god - I'd long for death. All of this stuff has been discussed endlessly, in detail, from so many angles in so many of our greatest works of literature that had you ever chanced upon more than one book you might have some clue as to what we're talking about.

Living forever in "sin" -doesn't...even...apply- as a mitigating factor of my happiness or despair. My relative contentedness is measured by far less idiotic metrics.

[dyresand]

The idea of original sin is pretty stupid why get punished at all?
god pretty much in the beginning should have gotten rid of the tree its his own fault we gotten free will.
something he never wanted us to have in the first place.