Catholic miracles

[abaris]

Maybe it did happen once. Here is one documented case of a restored limb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda

The Miracle of Calanda is an event that allegedly took place in Calanda, Spain in 1640, according to 17th century documents. The documents state that a young farmer's leg was restored to him after having been amputated two and a half years earlier. This event is described in detail in the book Il Miracolo by Vittorio Messori.

Yeah, and maybe pigs flew at the same time.

Vittorio Messori (born 1941) is an Italian journalist and writer. According to Sandro Magister, a Vaticanist, he is the "most translated Catholic writer in the world."

So, another catholic diving into an obscure story.

Author Brian Dunning has done extensive research and claims that "there is no documentation or witness accounts confirming his leg was ever gone." He presents a non-miraculous explanation that Pellicer's leg did not develop gangrene during the five days at the hospital at Valencia. He spent the next 50 days convalescing, during which he was unable to work. He turned to begging, and discovered that having a broken leg was a boon. After his leg had mended, he decided that if a broken leg helped, a missing leg would be better. Traveling to Zaragoza, he bound his right foreleg up behind his thigh and for two years played the part of an amputee beggar. Later, back at his parents home in Calanda, forced to sleep in a different bed, his ruse was discovered. The story of the miracle was a way to save face. Dunning asserts "that no evidence exists that his leg was ever amputated — or that he was even treated at all — at the hospital in Zaragoza other than his own word. He named three doctors there, but for some reason there is no record of their having been interviewed by either the delegation or the trial."[3] However, Dunning is mistaken about the facts of the trial; Juan de Estanga and others from the hospital did testify to the treatment of Miguel Juan and to the amputation.

[Heywood]

Author Brian Dunning has done extensive research and claims that "there is no documentation or witness accounts confirming his leg was ever gone." He presents a non-miraculous explanation that Pellicer's leg did not develop gangrene during the five days at the hospital at Valencia. He spent the next 50 days convalescing, during which he was unable to work. He turned to begging, and discovered that having a broken leg was a boon. After his leg had mended, he decided that if a broken leg helped, a missing leg would be better. Traveling to Zaragoza, he bound his right foreleg up behind his thigh and for two years played the part of an amputee beggar. Later, back at his parents home in Calanda, forced to sleep in a different bed, his ruse was discovered. The story of the miracle was a way to save face. Dunning asserts "that no evidence exists that his leg was ever amputated — or that he was even treated at all — at the hospital in Zaragoza other than his own word. He named three doctors there, but for some reason there is no record of their having been interviewed by either the delegation or the trial."[3] However, Dunning is mistaken about the facts of the trial; Juan de Estanga and others from the hospital did testify to the treatment of Miguel Juan and to the amputation.

In order to dismiss this "miracle", Dunning has to propose new details and then assume these new details are in fact are true. I propose that it is just happenstance that every time the speed of a photon is measured in a vacuum, it turns out to be 186,000 miles per second. Since my proposal is assumed to be true....I just debunked the notion that the speed of light in vacuum is constant. See how easy it is to debunk anything if you can make up any details you want and then assume them to be true?

If all you consider is just the evidence available then it appears an amputee had his limb restored. I am not saying I believe it(I don't). I am just saying there is evidence to support the claim that an amputee has his limb restored thru Divine intervention. You really don't desire that a miracle happen just once. What you want is for a miracle to happen just once when you are around to witness it.

[Thor]

So we have ONE alleged instance of a limb being restored through divine intervention. And this supposedly happened over 370 years ago. Yeah, I'm convinced!

[Heywood]

So we have ONE alleged instance of a limb being restored through divine intervention. And this supposedly happened over 370 years ago. Yeah, I'm convinced!

I'm not convinced either. I am pointing out the problem with miracles. They can't be everyday repeatable occurrences otherwise they just aren't miracles. Miracles, if they happen, are something you should expect not to see.

[abaris]

Miracles, if they happen, are something you should expect not to see.

Convenient for the miracles.

[Heywood]

Miracles, if they happen, are something you should expect not to see.

Convenient for the miracles.

It also makes it convenient for anyone to dismiss a miracle.

[Thor]

I'm not convinced either. I am pointing out the problem with miracles. They can't be everyday repeatable occurrences otherwise they just aren't miracles. Miracles, if they happen, are something you should expect not to see.

Yes, there is a problem with miracles. The problem is that not one has ever been verified to have actually taken place.

[robvalue]

Anyone can say they witnessed a miracle, any time they like.

The claim can never be the proof.

[Heywood]

I'm not convinced either. I am pointing out the problem with miracles. They can't be everyday repeatable occurrences otherwise they just aren't miracles. Miracles, if they happen, are something you should expect not to see.

Yes, there is a problem with miracles. The problem is that not one has ever been verified to have actually taken place.

Except for the pesky Miracle of Calanda. That was verified by people at the time......you just don't accept their verification and want to see an amputee's limb restored for yourself....but this is an unreasonable expectation.

[robvalue]

People can lie, people can be deluded. For something so fantastic, a bit of eye witness testimony is not good enough evidence.

If it was, you'd have to believe any insane claim made by any group of people who have matching stories.