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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 1:03 am
(December 9, 2014 at 6:28 pm)dyresand Wrote: just for a moment one has to wonder if god is a theist or an atheist.
god is the most powerful being if he existed so does he or does he not have to believe in a higher power such as himself? if god didn't he is an atheist if god believed there is a higher power than himself he would be a theist.
so if god believed in a higher power shouldn't people praise the guy who made god instead. 
Christianity is the first religion to create an atheist god.
All other religions previously were "henotheistic". They allowed for other gods to exist but obviously, everyone worshiped the biggest and most powerful god on the block.
It's kind of like in the original Conan where Conan and the thief are debating who worships the stronger god. Or George Carlin who once said in a stand-up routine, "my god has a bigger dick than your god".
In Roman culture, it wasn't uncommon to have an eclectic collection of gods you prayed to, not just in their own pantheon but the gods of other cultures as well. The heavens were a crowded place in a way that would make the canonical D&D cosmology look simple in comparison.
Christianity was the first religion to really reject all the other gods as delusion and as false idols. Hence, atheism is just "one less god", turning the same standard of proof that Christians impose on other gods against their favorite god.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 4:12 am
God clearly doesn't believe in himself very much if he has to create a bunch of peons to tell him how great he is every day under threat of eternal punishment.
If I was in his position, I'd kick back and relax. I'm perfect, why try harder?
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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 6:10 am
(December 10, 2014 at 12:00 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Anyone with firsthand experience with God (including God) would, of course, no longer be a believer. You meet God, you know you've met God. Belief no longer is an option once an individual knows for sure.
When you look into a mirror, what do you see? Yourself, of coarse, do you believe it's you, of coarse if you're sane. But according to you, you can no longer have belief in your self. Kinda' crazy man, really crazy.
The fact is the NT teaches that we can know God, as in you know your best friend is a real person.
Quote:It gets interesting, however, if belief is an absolute requirement for salvation.
It is a requirement, can't be any other way.
Quote:For instance, if belief is a requirement, the virgin Mary would, upon her death, be consigned to HELL, for ETERNAL torment for not believing.
What kind of statement is that, Mary knew Jesus was the Christ before He was born. You aren't very up on your Bible are you.
Quote:An even better one, presumably, between expiring upon the cross and the resurrection, Jesus was in hell, it being silly if he got to kick back for 3 days in heaven during that interval. So, Jesus (obviously) did not merely believe in Himself and His sacrifice, he clearly knew, so the requirement for belief as ones ticket to heaven might be inviolable.
Sorry Mary. Sucks to get fucked by God, don't it ?
There's nothing to say about such ridiculous jabber.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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Re: RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 6:32 am
(This post was last modified: December 10, 2014 at 6:32 am by TubbyTubby.)
(December 10, 2014 at 6:10 am)Godschild Wrote: There's nothing to say about such ridiculous jabber.
GC That's priceless coming from someone that ACTUALLY believes a supernatural being can impregnate a woman.
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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 6:40 am
(December 9, 2014 at 6:28 pm)dyresand Wrote: just for a moment one has to wonder if god is a theist or an atheist.
god is the most powerful being if he existed so does he or does he not have to believe in a higher power such as himself? if god didn't he is an atheist if god believed there is a higher power than himself he would be a theist.
so if god believed in a higher power shouldn't people praise the guy who made god instead.
This is the Omnipotence paradox.
Omnipotence Paradox
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 6:50 am
(December 9, 2014 at 6:28 pm)dyresand Wrote: just for a moment one has to wonder if god is a theist or an atheist.
god is the most powerful being if he existed so does he or does he not have to believe in a higher power such as himself? if god didn't he is an atheist if god believed there is a higher power than himself he would be a theist.
so if god believed in a higher power shouldn't people praise the guy who made god instead.
At first sight I thought this looked like babble but yeh it's a pretty good point I suppose. If god is conscious even if he does know everything I wonder if he is ever curious about things being outside his knowledge and power.
How does god know he isn't just an insane human being who believes he is god?
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 7:49 am
(December 10, 2014 at 6:40 am)ManMachine Wrote: (December 9, 2014 at 6:28 pm)dyresand Wrote: just for a moment one has to wonder if god is a theist or an atheist.
god is the most powerful being if he existed so does he or does he not have to believe in a higher power such as himself? if god didn't he is an atheist if god believed there is a higher power than himself he would be a theist.
so if god believed in a higher power shouldn't people praise the guy who made god instead.
This is the Omnipotence paradox.
Omnipotence Paradox
MM Which is answered by God's own description of Himself. In that He is alpha and and omega, the beginning and end of all things. In short this means God is/has the authority to be whatever He wants to be. In essence that is what omnipotence is.
Example: can God create a rock so big He cant't lift it? This is the essence of your paradox, but as the alpha and omega God gets to decide whether or not he could do such a trivial thing. If He wills that He do such a thing then He can if His will says no, then He can't. That is what it truly means to be All powerful.
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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 8:03 am
(December 10, 2014 at 7:49 am)Drich Wrote: (December 10, 2014 at 6:40 am)ManMachine Wrote: This is the Omnipotence paradox.
Omnipotence Paradox
MM Which is answered by God's own description of Himself. In that He is alpha and and omega, the beginning and end of all things. In short this means God is/has the authority to be whatever He wants to be. In essence that is what omnipotence is.
Example: can God create a rock so big He cant't lift it? This is the essence of your paradox, but as the alpha and omega God gets to decide whether or not he could do such a trivial thing. If He wills that He do such a thing then He can if His will says no, then He can't. That is what it truly means to be All powerful.
It's not my paradox, I'm not omnipotent. Besides I much prefer the Averroes version, it's much more elegant.
"Is it possible for God to deny himself?"
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 9:22 am
Can God make a more powerful God? Did we do that one already?
Can God still dress himself? He's quite old now, you know.
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RE: have you thought about this
December 10, 2014 at 2:00 pm
(December 10, 2014 at 7:49 am)Drich Wrote: (December 10, 2014 at 6:40 am)ManMachine Wrote: This is the Omnipotence paradox.
Omnipotence Paradox
MM Which is answered by God's own description of Himself. In that He is alpha and and omega, the beginning and end of all things. In short this means God is/has the authority to be whatever He wants to be. In essence that is what omnipotence is.
Example: can God create a rock so big He cant't lift it? This is the essence of your paradox, but as the alpha and omega God gets to decide whether or not he could do such a trivial thing. If He wills that He do such a thing then He can if His will says no, then He can't. That is what it truly means to be All powerful.
God is not bright by any means if he went and impregnated mary only to get himself killed and sent to hell after he was dead. So jesus either sinned or he really never believed in god because you only got to hell for doing bad or not being a believer. So jesus in your eyes was all good so in that case for god(jesus) was in hell for not believing in himself.
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