My privilege as a straight, white, cisgender, middle class thin male

[Dystopia]

Damn! Alright... I said it like that because it was more simple and the text looked prettier, constantly putting "more likely" would bore the reader (maybe.). But ok, glad it's cleared.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't support white guilt because I don't promote it or engage in actions that allow for discrimination of non-white people. I also dislike the racist card, but it's not about that - I'm not saying all social justice advocates propose it correctly.

But what you did say was that privileged people aren't aware of it, and that's why I brought up white guilt -- not to say you espouse or project it, but to show you that there are certainly privileged people who are aware of the fact, no matter that you think otherwise.

No, but it's possible to objectively measure the quality of life of a certain group of people and observe social standards and reactions, making a judgement about the probability of the unknown average white compared to the person of colour having certain benefits. That's where I'm going to, I'm not pointing fingers to specific people or individuals I know, though I've personally witnessed differences in treatment of people because of factors I mentioned in the OP

So, how do you apply this knowledge without making assumptions about individuals? And why are you interested in making probability judgments based on skin color? That sounds like a bit of profiling to me. Do you think it's wrong or right to profile blacks as more likely to be criminals based on incarceration rates? I don't. And I equally reject profiling whites as being well-off, or privileged.

There are certainly differences in income between the races, certainly differences in conviction rates based on skin color -- but applying probability assessments about strangers based on those statistical trends doesn't seem very productive, to me -- an attitude you clearly agree with ("I'm not pointing fingers to specific people or individuals I know"). Why engage in it?

And implying that all whites are privileged, and at the same time ignorant of that fact, is not something I'll agree with, on either score.

[Davka]

There's another way to look at this: If you had the choice to be born into any group you chose, what would you go for?

Most people would agree that White is a good idea, it's just easier.
American? Yeah, or maybe Canadian if you don't mind the cold.
Wealthy? No-brainer. Middle-class at the very least.
Cisgendered? Well, duh! Who wouldn't want to be comfortable in their own skin?
Straight? Again, it's just easier.
Thin? Another no-brainer.
Male? Might get a little pushback on this, but seriously - do you really want to deal with pregnancy and menstrual periods? Not to mention all the societal crap.

Only by growing dreads and playing street music do I have the tiniest shot at getting my fair share of abuse.

I don't know. All those things are more geared towards the way to be most comfortable in life. Not everyone's goal in life is to be comfortable. I'd much rather be interesting

Interesting is easy. Piercings, tattoos, cross-dressing, walking backwards, calling yourself "Lord of the Mistletoe" - any or all of these can make you interesting. And you can still be white, male, cisgendered, straight, and all the rest.

[CapnAwesome]

I don't know. All those things are more geared towards the way to be most comfortable in life. Not everyone's goal in life is to be comfortable. I'd much rather be interesting

Interesting is easy. Piercings, tattoos, cross-dressing, walking backwards, calling yourself "Lord of the Mistletoe" - any or all of these can make you interesting. And you can still be white, male, cisgendered, straight, and all the rest.

Sure, of course. However those things listed are still more about being comfortable than being happy. I'd much rather live in the ghetto than in suburbia because it's just not as boring. This view also part of what I would call liberal racism. Where liberal white people just assume that other cultures and people would be better off if they had been born white and western without even bothering to ask them. What about the hispanic sense of family or black sense of struggle. These things have huge value, value probably beyond just being rich and comfortable.

[Dystopia]

Interesting is easy. Piercings, tattoos, cross-dressing, walking backwards, calling yourself "Lord of the Mistletoe" - any or all of these can make you interesting. And you can still be white, male, cisgendered, straight, and all the rest.

Sure, of course. However those things listed are still more about being comfortable than being happy. I'd much rather live in the ghetto than in suburbia because it's just not as boring. This view also part of what I would call liberal racism. Where liberal white people just assume that other cultures and people would be better off if they had been born white and western without even bothering to ask them. What about the hispanic sense of family or black sense of struggle. These things have huge value, value probably beyond just being rich and comfortable.

This is actually an interesting point, but I'd like if you could explain better why it is more interesting.

Additionally, I don't want anyone else to be born white, I want everyone to have give or take equal opportunities of social success and acceptance. In fact, some physical diversity makes the world interesting.

[CapnAwesome]

This is actually an interesting point, but I'd like if you could explain better why it is more interesting.

Additionally, I don't want anyone else to be born white, I want everyone to have give or take equal opportunities of social success and acceptance. In fact, some physical diversity makes the world interesting.

When you envision a white suburban neighborhood is there anything interesting going on? Maybe privately, but there is no music playing in the streets, there aren't people playing sports openly, everything is just so sanitized. Black and hispanic (and white rural) neighborhoods are so much more lively. People look down on these people as 'under-privileged' but I would imagine that if given a choice, they'd much rather live the way that they do than move into an expensive upper middle class house in the suburbs. Unfortunately that's what social success means to so many people. Being comfortable. Living in a nice neighborhood. I've lived in the suburbs, lived in Mexico, lived in rural Kentucky, lived in the Ghetto and by far the suburbs was the worst. There is just no culture. When people think Americans have no culture it's because the American dream, picket fence and all, is a culturaless boring one that involves working all the time and not actually enjoying your life. So maybe not everyone wants to be 'privileged.'

[Davka]

Interesting is easy. Piercings, tattoos, cross-dressing, walking backwards, calling yourself "Lord of the Mistletoe" - any or all of these can make you interesting. And you can still be white, male, cisgendered, straight, and all the rest.

Sure, of course. However those things listed are still more about being comfortable than being happy. I'd much rather live in the ghetto than in suburbia because it's just not as boring. This view also part of what I would call liberal racism. Where liberal white people just assume that other cultures and people would be better off if they had been born white and western without even bothering to ask them. What about the hispanic sense of family or black sense of struggle. These things have huge value, value probably beyond just being rich and comfortable.

Like white folks can't have a sense of family, or struggle? Check out the Ozarks or Appalachians, dude, or move to a big city like Chicago or NYC. Boston's Southies have plenty of character too.

White middle-class doesn't have to mean suburban and boring. It could be Jersey Shores!

[CapnAwesome]

Like white folks can't have a sense of family, or struggle? Check out the Ozarks or Appalachians, dude, or move to a big city like Chicago or NYC. Boston's Southies have plenty of character too.

White middle-class doesn't have to mean suburban and boring. It could be Jersey Shores!

Did you read my post? I actually included white rural into my list and specifically mentioned Kentucky. I'm just addressing the concept of 'privilege' and why it's not neccesarily so great rather than making racial stereotypes. Also the Jersey Shore is people trying (and mostly failing) to make their boring lives interesting.

[Davka]

Like white folks can't have a sense of family, or struggle? Check out the Ozarks or Appalachians, dude, or move to a big city like Chicago or NYC. Boston's Southies have plenty of character too.

White middle-class doesn't have to mean suburban and boring. It could be Jersey Shores!

Did you read my post? I actually included white rural into my list and specifically mentioned Kentucky. I'm just addressing the concept of 'privilege' and why it's not neccesarily so great rather than making racial stereotypes. Also the Jersey Shore is people trying (and mostly failing) to make their boring lives interesting.

OK I'm not being clear, sorry about that. It could be the wine.

I'm just trying to say that White Privilege is not at all about white suburbia. I'm living in the mountains in a place that I know damned good-and-well the bank would not have been so pleased to let me buy if I wasn't an educated white boy, capable of doing a decent impression of middle-class.

I agree that white bread and mayo with a picket fence and 2.3 kids is about as exciting as watching paint dry. But that's only a tiny slice of the picture.

[Regina]

This is actually an interesting point, but I'd like if you could explain better why it is more interesting.

Additionally, I don't want anyone else to be born white, I want everyone to have give or take equal opportunities of social success and acceptance. In fact, some physical diversity makes the world interesting.

When you envision a white suburban neighborhood is there anything interesting going on? Maybe privately, but there is no music playing in the streets, there aren't people playing sports openly, everything is just so sanitized. Black and hispanic (and white rural) neighborhoods are so much more lively. People look down on these people as 'under-privileged' but I would imagine that if given a choice, they'd much rather live the way that they do than move into an expensive upper middle class house in the suburbs. Unfortunately that's what social success means to so many people. Being comfortable. Living in a nice neighborhood. I've lived in the suburbs, lived in Mexico, lived in rural Kentucky, lived in the Ghetto and by far the suburbs was the worst. There is just no culture. When people think Americans have no culture it's because the American dream, picket fence and all, is a culturaless boring one that involves working all the time and not actually enjoying your life. So maybe not everyone wants to be 'privileged.'

I completely agree, having experienced both.

I grew up in the suburban life (although it was more working class than middle class definitely, we were never comfortably wealthy) and it was boring. You especially notice it when you become an adult, and you realise you are so cut off from the excitement of the city, with public transport services few and far between and unreliable (which sucks if, like me, you don't drive).

It is cultureless. Nobody talks to anyone else, save for the old ladies who gossip about the neighbours. Very little to do, very little and/or poor retail and leisure services.

I'm now living in a more "deprived" inner-city neighbourhood at university with some friends. I love it. It's so much closer to everything, it's more exciting, more stuff happens and I love the diversity. Once I officially move out of my parents' home I can't see myself moving back to the suburbs unless I have a family.