Fuel against the fundies

[tackattack]

One of the things I've learned over my delusional indoctrination into original Christianity, and something still in contention between me and my parents is homosexuality. I learned a lot from http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm and would like a jewish contribution to it's valididty. Also it's fuel I use in my personal life to help others better understand God's word, especially regarding homosexuality.

[Dotard]

I don't understand.

So you support condemnation of homosexuals?

Also why are you looking for a Jew to confirm it's validity? It's in the bible, you're a christian so to you it's valid. Or so I would think. Or do you only consider bible passages valid if a Jew confirms as such?

[leo-rcc]

I don't understand.

So you support condemnation of homosexuals?

As i read it it's the other way around.

[Dotard]

I'm guessing it is the otherway around only if you do not view the bible as "God's Word".

Seeing that he labels himself christian and used the phrase "God's word" had me assume he views the bible as the words of a God and thus condemns the fags.

Christians are a confusing lot. Joe xtain says yes it does, Jane xtain says no it doesn't, Frank xtain says it means something entirely different. Pick the shoe that fits you and not one cannot find any less web sites, books and 'authorative writings' to support their shoe size than the other.

How about this;
Make up your own goddamn mind about your opinions on the matter and let the ancient desert goat herders have theirs.

[leo-rcc]

It will come as no surprise that I do agree with you on that. As you can cherry pick anything in the bible to make it agree with whatever position you hold valid, why not use that to your advantage to persuade other Christians?

[Dotard]

And why the need for a Jew to confirm validity? Are the Jews the authorative source for biblical interpretations?

If so, then why do Jews, just as xtians, disagree umoungst themselves on the meanings of different passages?

[leo-rcc]

And why the need for a Jew to confirm validity? Are the Jews the authorative source for biblical interpretations?

Lewis Black said it best, "If you want to know what the old testament really means, ask a Jew. He will take the time out of his busy schedule and explain it to you. For the right price."

[Dotard]

LOL! I remember that;

...IF the price is right.

[chatpilot]

It is funny how you pointed out that Jews even disagree amongst themselves what the scriptures really say or mean Dotard. Their culture is the actual source and they have a tough time deciphering and reinterpreting what the scriptures say as is evidenced by the various sects of Judaism in existence today. I personally think that modern interpretations of scripture (specifically the study of theology) are just the theist's feeble attempts to making the word of their god relevant to our day and age.

Now, when it comes to homosexuality in the scriptures tackattack I would love to hear what you think. I am sure that from what I have read in the scriptures over the years homosexuality is an abomination before god and was punishable by death.

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I don't think you need a Jew to interpret this for you since it seems pretty clear what it is stating.

[tackattack]

I go to the original koine greek or hebrew text whenever possible. I also prefer context. I don't read greek or hebrew, Jews take the time to study the language that's why I'd like his opinion on the translation.

I'll excerpt,

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Approach: Personally study the Bible's original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek writings and attempt to understand precisely what the writers taught. If so, then you may find that these same passages condemn specific homosexual activities (rape, prostitution, child sexual abuse, ritual sex in temples, etc.) But the Bible appears to be silent about same-sex, committed, loving relationships.

"qadesh" means a male prostitute who engaged in ritual sex in a Pagan temple. This was a common profession both in ancient Israel and in the surrounding countries. The word is often mistranslated simply as "sodomite" or "homosexual." (e.g. the King James Version of the Bible, Deuteronomy 23:17). The companion word quedeshaw means female temple prostitute. It is frequently mistranslated simply as "whore" or "prostitute." A qadesh and quedeshaw were not simply prostitutes. They had a specific role to play in the temple. They represented a God and Goddess, and engaged in sexual intercourse in that capacity with members of the temple.
"to'ebah" means a condemned, foreign, Pagan, religious, cult practice, but often simply translated as "abomination." Eating food which contains both meat and dairy products is "to'ebah" A Jew having a meal with an Egyptian was "to'ebah." A Jew wearing a polyester-cotton garment, or having a tattoo is "to'ebah" today.

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In a world where ritual pagan sex in the church with prostitution was common and trying to be stamped out, and with no mention of female homosexuals (btw homosexual is a 19th century word) I have to conclude that they meant ritual pagan sex between male and male, not a concensual loving relationship between 2 men or 2 women. I agree that a vast majority still do see homosexuality as a sin. But simply put the Bible is the living inspired words of God, it is not inerrant, I think it is still one of the worlds most translated books and as such, more integrity is required than less. If I were to ever take a literalist approach to the Bible, it would almost certainly have to be in it's original text. I've already spoken to many Jews on the subject of it's validity and am quite satisfied with my own qualification, however it is telling of the Jews that interpret it a certain way, that's why I asked.

"Like all indigenous peoples, the Jews were not overly concerned about male homosexuality, where two men lived together in a monogamous, sexual relationship. As a rule, it did not get any notice....The Talmud does not record a single instance of a person being brought before the Sanhedrin on the charge of homosexual activity."-Rabbi Gershon Caudill, "A Heterosexual Jewish Rebbe's View on the (Supposedly) Homosexual Texts in the Hebrew Bible,"