Pro-choice - I need help with arguments

[pocaracas]

Do we, as a society, want out kids to have sex and abort without adult supervision/consent? The first part is already happening, I guess...

As you say, the horse is out of the barn on the first part. On the second, do we as a society want to force babies to have babies? And why? Because some 19th century minded religious retard thinks they should be punished for fucking?

Indeed...
So then... perhaps the best solution is to require parental information. The parent has no say in the matter, but must be informed. Could that work?

[Minimalist]

Depends on the parent, I suppose. Not all of them are rational. I think the kid would be the best judge of that.

[Aoi Magi]

I think the consent has more to do with actually notifying the parents, than getting their approval for the abortion. If it is the latter though, I am against it. If a teen or preteen is pregnant and needs an abortion, then they should be able to proceed with it no matter what their parents say. But some adult supervision and guidance is necessary. Abortion is a very delicate procedure, not only emotionally but from a medical perspective as well.

[Minimalist]

As correctly pointed out above - most parents would not let the rantings of a silly old book interfere with their child getting an appendectomy* but abortion is a 3'd rail for religious shitwits.


*Certain batshit crazy xtian sects, excepted.

[Regina]

"Pro-life" should be for the already living, not for the unconscious bundle of cells.

Why is it that these "pro-life" people are so concerned with protecting the life on unborn children, when we have conscious children outside the womb facing poverty, starvation and abuse? Focus on that if you are really "pro-life".

Also the life of the mother is always more valuable than the life of an unconscious bundle of cells.

[Brian37]

No argument to be had. Not their body, if they are not going to raise the kid they need to shut the fuck up.

[JonDarbyXIII]

An abortion is, ultimately, a potentially life-threatening procedure and should then be performed with consent by an adult.

I think this is the crux of the problem. As much as I hate the idea of a parent using religion to force their teenage child to give birth, the ultimate point is that it is a medical condition. ('medical condition' is the very point that is used the most by those defending a woman's choice in the matter.)

I don't like the idea of legislating the details of parenthood any more than I like the idea of legislating bedroom proclivities, but the problem is there nonetheless. I think the best course of action (and maybe, unfortunately, the only course of action) is to continue to fight for the rights of women and against religions' hold on them. I can only hope that by doing this, more and more parents will come to acknowledge that this is a medical condition with which their child needs help instead of viewing it as a shameful sign of sin against their god.

[rexbeccarox]

My dad, recently, had to give permission for the doctor to run some test on him... I think it was an MRI.
An adult must give consent for particular medical procedures.
An abortion is, ultimately, a potentially life-threatening procedure and should then be performed with consent by an adult... whatever "adult" means in your neck of the woods (yeah, I know you're in my neck, blackout... and I know giving birth is also a potentially life-threatening procedure).
That's just it. Informed consent requires an adult. A teenager is a child, in the eyes of the law, so the parent/caregiver is the one that gives consent.
It's the same thing, if the child requires an MRI, chemotherapy, biopsy, tonsil removal, etc, etc, etc...

Of course, this brings up situations where the teen wants to abort, but the parent is morally against abortion, so refuses to give consent... where has anyone ever heard of a parent being morally against tonsil removal?
I don't know how to sort these out... Perhaps some counseling of the parent could steer him/her towards meeting with their own child's desire not to have a baby, but it's far from guaranteed.

On the other hand, if teen abortion is allowed without any parental consent... what is foreseeable? More reckless behaviors on an already reckless enough demographic?
Do we, as a society, want out kids to have sex and abort without adult supervision/consent? The first part is already happening, I guess...

(bold mine)

Googling "abortion life threatening", "can abortion kill the pregnant woman", and similar search terms, the only information I could find that abortion can be life-threatening was on anti-choice websites. Can you provide a medical link, poca?

[FatAndFaithless]

Yeah..I was under the impression that abortion (performed correctly in actual medical facilities, of course) is actually really, really safe.

[pocaracas]

My dad, recently, had to give permission for the doctor to run some test on him... I think it was an MRI.
An adult must give consent for particular medical procedures.
An abortion is, ultimately, a potentially life-threatening procedure and should then be performed with consent by an adult... whatever "adult" means in your neck of the woods (yeah, I know you're in my neck, blackout... and I know giving birth is also a potentially life-threatening procedure).
That's just it. Informed consent requires an adult. A teenager is a child, in the eyes of the law, so the parent/caregiver is the one that gives consent.
It's the same thing, if the child requires an MRI, chemotherapy, biopsy, tonsil removal, etc, etc, etc...

Of course, this brings up situations where the teen wants to abort, but the parent is morally against abortion, so refuses to give consent... where has anyone ever heard of a parent being morally against tonsil removal?
I don't know how to sort these out... Perhaps some counseling of the parent could steer him/her towards meeting with their own child's desire not to have a baby, but it's far from guaranteed.

On the other hand, if teen abortion is allowed without any parental consent... what is foreseeable? More reckless behaviors on an already reckless enough demographic?
Do we, as a society, want out kids to have sex and abort without adult supervision/consent? The first part is already happening, I guess...

(bold mine)

Googling "abortion life threatening", "can abortion kill the pregnant woman", and similar search terms, the only information I could find that abortion can be life-threatening was on anti-choice websites. Can you provide a medical link, poca?

Would you accept a UK NHS link?
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Abortion/Pages/Risks.aspx
Last I heard, you can die from excessive bleeding and from an infection.
I admit that, nowadays, it's rare... but it's possible.