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Can you make a God claim?
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 (January 12, 2015 at 7:52 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: And what accounts for the rigidity of the rules? They could be anything, but they are actually very specific.Isn't that what material reductionism---or rather the scientific enterprise---strives to resolve? The point is that it has the ability to bring a person further than merely sitting in a chair and thinking about it.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
 RE: Can you make a God claim?
January 12, 2015 at 8:06 pm
(This post was last modified: January 12, 2015 at 8:06 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(January 12, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:Not really. The scientific enterprise strives to uncover the fundamental natures of things in the physical universe. It doesn't say how it is possible for fundamental things to actually have natures.(January 12, 2015 at 7:52 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: And what accounts for the rigidity of the rules? They could be anything, but they are actually very specific.Isn't that what material reductionism---or rather the scientific enterprise---strives to resolve? RE: Can you make a God claim?
January 12, 2015 at 10:16 pm
(This post was last modified: January 12, 2015 at 10:22 pm by Mudhammam.)
(January 12, 2015 at 8:06 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Not really. The scientific enterprise strives to uncover the fundamental natures of things in the physical universe. It doesn't say how it is possible for fundamental things to actually have natures....except when it does, as in discovery. Thanks to science, not ancient stories perpetuated by an individual or club insisting that an ad hoc interpretation of experience contains a metaphysical truth about the Cosmos---you can point to just as many obviously erroneous philosophies and faiths as I can---we know a lot about the nature of things and how they came to exist as they do; thanks to sense experience and an objectively veritable method for testing the probability of mutually exclusive dogmas and whether they have any bearing on our own experience of reality; teaching yourself to think objectively about the world takes practice, while you can't even put your ideas on the thief's cross with the hope that true knowledge is born, a path to progress and a larger mental map drawn in abstract by the brain. Metaphysics that can't explain anything, because they lack any reference to reality as it can be objectively tested is no different than an obscure thought in your mind trusting itself or someone else as equally ignorant about themselves and the world as it truly is. Don't forget, it made you before you made it.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Again, not all kinds of knowledge lend themselves to testing. Science takes causality for granted. It takes mathematics for granted. It takes logic for granted. It takes the recognition of universals for granted. Etc. Etc. Without metaphysical support the scientific method has no absolutes to back it up its conclusions. Where you find absolutes you will also find God.
Absolutely not!
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy (January 13, 2015 at 6:51 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Again, not all kinds of knowledge lend themselves to testing. Science takes causality for granted. It takes mathematics for granted. It takes logic for granted. It takes the recognition of universals for granted. Etc. Etc. Without metaphysical support the scientific method has no absolutes to back it up its conclusions. Where you find absolutes you will also find God.Again, when you say "takes for granted," Einstein rebukes you by rightly stating that like a game, or as I might suggest anything requiring a context, "arbitrary rules" are measured by the "success" of the results they produce, apart from which you have no special privilege to knowledge about objective truth that deserves anyone else's attention or respect.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
RE: Can you make a God claim?
January 13, 2015 at 8:35 pm
(This post was last modified: January 13, 2015 at 8:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The scientific method needs no absolutes to back up anything, because it isn't in the business of absolutes to begin with. The success of science has been precisely that it does -not- take things for granted. The nature of causality, for example, is debated -from within science-. If we learn something novel about causality, it isn't going to come from your corner, it's going to come from theirs. You stopped wondering centuries ago Chad. Your claim about knowledge and what does or does not "lend itself" to testing remains disputed, not that this will give you even a moment of pause.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Mathematics is not true because it's successful; its successful because it is true. You guys have it totally backwards.
(January 13, 2015 at 9:08 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Mathematics is not true because it's successful; its successful because it is true. You guys have it totally backwards.Mathematics are abstract formulas that our minds map onto the real world. Numbers don't exist in the world apart from our logical ordering of it. I don't know how you have it, but uh, nice try Pythagoras.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
It's interesting to see how old this thread is and how recent posts have nothing to do with the OP
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