Tory MP 'comes out' as atheist.

[TubbyTubby]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/hom...83538.html

I don't know which part of this story makes me cringe the most. The leader of our country stating he is evangelical, James Arbuthnot saying that MPs need to pretend they're religious or some unknown fuckwit called Jake Berry saying " "I believe and still believe that there is more power in prayer than the stroke of any minister's pen or in fact the power of the chair or any division of this House.”

All three things make me feel very uneasy about how our country is being run. I think I will be checking more carefully MPs religious views before voting. Utterly fucking scary.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I think DC is one of the biggest threats to secularism and general freedom in the UK.

He's already effectively come out as wanting to ban porn for example, and has made strides to that end through legislation. There has been a movement under the Labour Party over the last few decades called christian socialism which was very influential over many new labour politicians, notably Blair and several Blairites. It's a very, very complex issue as British politics has effectively all been centre right for the last 40 years, but this has in part been as a result of strong christian influences in several political machinations.

One thing we have going for us that, say, the U.S. doesn't is that increasingly the majority 'religious' demographic here throughout England and Wales is non-religious, which means there's little to no stigma from that demographic towards non-religious MPs. Weirdly this isnt reflected in the media (understandable in the right leaning newspapers, which is almost all of them) where non-religion is treated with suspicion and derision (remember Ed Miliband's quick wedding when the Daily Mail effectively asked how anyone could vote for someone that wasn't married? Lol). But hey, maybe that's one reason why their circulation has been going down continuously for a decade?

UK politicians today are mostly medicore, rising through the ranks of parties from being SPADS (special advisors) to joining as junior candidates and quickly being elevated to being junior (shadow) ministers. They're representative of a 'push for the centre' politics where policies and people are pretty much bland and uninteresting. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily, and arguably it's better than a politics which swings to the left and right wildly. But there's nothing inspiring about them. They're just an increasingly out of touch image of the elite which have very little in common with the people they represent.

[robvalue]

Why are unfounded claims like "prayer works" allowed to stand by the media? This is a testable phenomena. If he is making this claim, he should be able to provide real evidence. The media doesn't seem to let other unfounded claims go by without question.

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It takes no guts or effort to claim you have amazing faith. It's something that just can't be assessed. I would be very surprised if there weren't many politicians in many countries faking it. It's ridiculous. I heard before milliband is atheist though, and nick leg? This takes guts, to come out and say this.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Oh they do, all the time.

There's a difference between advertising a product or treatment (this is where the advertising standards authority would come in) to stating a belief (which is what is stated above).

You can read any newspapers 'lifestyle' columns and find a myriad of stories about bunk treatments and woo medicines, fad diets, 'anti-oxidents' and all the bullshit. Someone saying prayer works isn't really any different to those.

Hell, when you've got people like Cherie Blair refusing to say whether the Blair's have had their kids vaccinated because of the hysteria around MMR (which was also fully supported by parts of the press), you shouldn't be surprised either by what MPs or the media say about anything, regardless of the evidence for or against.

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I'm not naive, I've been studying politics long enough to know its about the playing the game well above being a man of the people. Thing is now is that the UK's population is radically different to when the current executive were 'in training'. Being religious is less of a norm, and people are increasingly skeptical of absurd beliefs, be they religious or scientific. Our MPs shouldn't be afraid to say they're religious or not. Seems like it's the culture of Westminster and Fleet Street which is the problem here.

[robvalue]

Good point.

I object just as much to unfounded woo claims being made, clearly false advertising. Why is it allowed?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Good point.

I object just as much to unfounded woo claims being made, clearly false advertising. Why is it allowed?

Bullshit sells to those who swallow it. You can't legislate against stupidity.

All you can do is use a counter discourse, which thankfully works more often than not.

What's worrying is when you have a vested interest working against you, like the evanlgelical lobby in the US. Luckily here we have a general recognition that the only way a UK economy will compete in the wider global economy is through science, technology and innovation, so whilst funding towards science is still pitifully shit, it's getting better.

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I want to add that, after reading through my posts, I realise I come across as dismissive of our current leaders. I don't means to be, because I think it's dangerous to take these guys for granted. What we need is more political activism, not the crazy anarchy 'let's bring down the system' bullshit, but a general increase in the competence and interest towards how our politics works, and what it takes to get involved.

All too often we see voting levels go down whilst crazy legislation gets slipped in under the door (racial and religious hatred act anyone?) it needs to stop, but it can only stop if people exercise their right to be informed.

Ive lectured to students at one of the UKs best universities who still don't know their arse from their elbow when it came to even basic political structures here in England and Wales. This is dangerous because it's from these minds that the next generation of political discourse is born. If they're not interested, then where does that leave us? More mediocrity, and the taking advantage of people who either don't know or don't care.