Okay, White 'Murrica....

[Minimalist]

I would have thought the "'Murrica" in the title would have been clear enough.

Apparently not.

[Gawdzilla]

I think many go to great lengths to avoid it.

When it comes to things like white privilege, institutionalized racism, and the racism that underlies things like high poverty rates; incarceration rates; death-by-cop rates and so on, yeah - a lot of us have a hard time with those hard truths. other than that, we're just as honest or sneaky as anyone else.

My point exactly. People are people and the casually unthinking racist needs to keep that in mind.

[KUSA]

What do you think the result would have been if the colors had been reversed?

(Try to be honest, if you can.)

http://newsok.com/update-gunman-released...le/5384876

White man shoots black police chief 4 times without being arrested or charged

Wishita County, Oklahoma — A black police chief was shot four times by a white ‘survivalist,’ and the shooting did not result in an arrest. Louis Ross, the Sentinel Oklahoma police chief, was hit three times in the chest and once in the arm.

The shooter has been identified as 29-year-old Dallas Horton. After the incident, he was detained by police but later released without being charged with any crime.

There probably wouldn't have been a headline for you to read.

[Davka]

What do you think the result would have been if the colors had been reversed?

(Try to be honest, if you can.)

http://newsok.com/update-gunman-released...le/5384876

There probably wouldn't have been a headline for you to read.

Oh, there's be a headline. A tiny one, something like "police shoot, kill deranged suspect."

[Dystopia]

We had that asshole a few weeks back saying that minorities cannot be racist. Was he being dishonest, or simply stupid?

Seriously, Gawdzilla has a point: if you're saying "x race cannot be y quality", you're talking out of your ass. FNM made an overbroad, unnuanced statement.

True story, but while every race can be racist, I'm not particularly worried about racist statements about whites because I know they'll never impact politics, in fact, there's no political party that has, as an ideology, to kick out everyone who isn't white (at least a party that has minimal credit)... Usually racism is a reference to discrimination against people of colour because they are the minority in the west (for now) and it's far more common; everyone can be racist, anyone, but not all racist behaviour impacts social institutions equally.

[Davka]

We had that asshole a few weeks back saying that minorities cannot be racist. Was he being dishonest, or simply stupid?

Seriously, Gawdzilla has a point: if you're saying "x race cannot be y quality", you're talking out of your ass. FNM made an overbroad, unnuanced statement.

True story, but while every race can be racist, I'm not particularly worried about racist statements about whites because I know they'll never impact politics, in fact, there's no political party that has, as an ideology, to kick out everyone who isn't white... Usually racism is a reference to discrimination against people of colour because they are the minority in the west (for now) and it's far more common.

It depends a lot on which definition of "racism" you're using. There is an extremely popular definition among Anthropologists today, which goes like this: Race prejudice + power = racism.

It's based on approaching the definition backwards, so to speak. If we agree that racism necessarily causes mental, emotional, physical, and economic harm to entire groups of people (those who are the target of racism), then the definition makes more sense. Bigotry against the Irish used to be a serious problem. Today there are probably a few people who still feel that way, but because they have no power and their bigotry is not institutionalized, it doesn't affect me (3/4 Irish) in any way.

Personally, I think there needs to be another word for race prejudice + power. Most people think of "racism" as simply "hating people & believing that they are inherently inferior simply because of their racial characteristics." Trying to re-define "racism" more narrowly will only lead to pointless arguments.

[Dystopia]

True story, but while every race can be racist, I'm not particularly worried about racist statements about whites because I know they'll never impact politics, in fact, there's no political party that has, as an ideology, to kick out everyone who isn't white... Usually racism is a reference to discrimination against people of colour because they are the minority in the west (for now) and it's far more common.

It depends a lot on which definition of "racism" you're using. There is an extremely popular definition among Anthropologists today, which goes like this: Race prejudice + power = racism.

It's based on approaching the definition backwards, so to speak. If we agree that racism necessarily causes mental, emotional, physical, and economic harm to entire groups of people (those who are the target of racism), then the definition makes more sense. Bigotry against the Irish used to be a serious problem. Today there are probably a few people who still feel that way, but because they have no power and their bigotry is not institutionalized, it doesn't affect me (3/4 Irish) in any way.

Personally, I think there needs to be another word for race prejudice + power. Most people think of "racism" as simply "hating people & believing that they are inherently inferior simply because of their racial characteristics." Trying to re-define "racism" more narrowly will only lead to pointless arguments.

Yeah I totally agree. I usually care about the definition of racism + social power because it impacts discriminated groups much further; but simply having a stereotype about any other race is racist, be it against whites, blacks or asians. However simply holding racists views is not more harmful that engaging in social racial prejudice and promoting it consciously and subconsciously ; the officers who unarmed shoot black men, the store owners that follow black customers around the shop; the person who is more likely to consider an opinion if it's thrown out by a white instead of a black - Those are all forms of subtle promotion of racism, it's just not noticeable to the common citizen.

[Thumpalumpacus]

True story, but while every race can be racist, I'm not particularly worried about racist statements about whites because I know they'll never impact politics, in fact, there's no political party that has, as an ideology, to kick out everyone who isn't white (at least a party that has minimal credit)... Usually racism is a reference to discrimination against people of colour because they are the minority in the west (for now) and it's far more common; everyone can be racist, anyone, but not all racist behaviour impacts social institutions equally.

I'm addressing this on a personal, and not a social, level. I'm tired of being assumed to be a racist because I have white skin. The question may have been a joke, cool ... but Gawdzilla's point stands nonetheless, despite appeals to social impact, etc. Racist is racist -- even in jokes.

[Davka]

True story, but while every race can be racist, I'm not particularly worried about racist statements about whites because I know they'll never impact politics, in fact, there's no political party that has, as an ideology, to kick out everyone who isn't white (at least a party that has minimal credit)... Usually racism is a reference to discrimination against people of colour because they are the minority in the west (for now) and it's far more common; everyone can be racist, anyone, but not all racist behaviour impacts social institutions equally.

I'm addressing this on a personal, and not a social, level. I'm tired of being assumed to be a racist because I have white skin. The question may have been a joke, cool ... but Gawdzilla's point stands nonetheless, despite appeals to social impact, etc. Racist is racist -- even in jokes.

I'd imagine that most black folks are pretty tired of being assumed to be X because they have dark skin. Probably a lot more tired than you are.

I doubt that many people automatically assume you or I are racist simply because we're white. If I were black, however, I'd be leery around white people I didn't know, at least until i could get some kind of read on them. Just like gays spent decades staying closeted until they knew it was safe to come out. Except black folks don't have the luxury of keeping their skin color on the down-low.

[Faith No More]

"Can white 'Murrica ever truly be honest?"

That wasn't you?

It was, but it doesn't mean what you appear to think it does.

Hint: I am white and an American, but I am not a white 'Murrican.

---

Seriously, Gawdzilla has a point: if you're saying "x race cannot be y quality", you're talking out of your ass. FNM made an overbroad, unnuanced statement.

Hey now, just because you don't understand the nuance, doesn't mean it isn't there.