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(September 20, 2011 at 4:19 am)ElDinero Wrote: Go ahead with the prayer answering, tack.
third attempt at posting this.
1-Alright, an example of me praying for myself that was successful is I was in a financial bind from floating checks and got "behind the ball" with overdraft fees etc. Completely my own doing. I didn't have anything to tithe on Sunday, and felt especially shameful about that. I spoke with my pastor about it and that night I prayed that I fulfill my commitment to the Church and get out of irresponsible financial mess. 3 days later my boss told me to stay late because him and his boss wanted to see me. I had no idea what for. Apparently 6 months earlier, unbeknown to me, my boss had put me in for an award. They presented me with $500. That was exactly enough to catch me up on all the late and overdraft fees with exactly enough left over for 2 weeks worth of tithe next Sunday and a good testimony.
2-An example of me praying for someone else was for my son. He had Mercer in his finer and his fingernail had come off. After taking his to the doctor and getting his medications and something for his pain and dressing his wound we were home for a few days. He only occasionally complained of pain. The Pastor was over for boardgames one night. The pain medication didn't seem to be working tonight and my son said he was in pain. He asked that I come and say prayers with him when I put him to bed. My wife, the pastor, his wife and I all went to pray over him for bed. We prayed that his pain, which he was experiencing prior to prayer, would go away and God would heal his wounds. When the prayer was over he was happy and not in pain (his words) and seemed kind of surprised by it. The next day he didn't want his pain medication and the redness that was there for 2 days prior had returned to normal and normal healing took place to regrow the nail.
Now I'm not sure if God answered the prayer or, Cthulu the 9th dimension overlord, or some telepathic race of aliens. I prayed to God though. When I was not a Christian, praying to Luna or Paimon or whatever else I never got so direct a response with and answer that fit so equally to what's requested. When I didn't believe in the supernatural no amount of coincidence added up so equitably. These are 2 of many and many more people have also had similar testimonies. These were not preplanned and I wouldn't have made the prayers if it wasn't suggested by an outside source. I don't commonly pray for things, mostly my prayers are a thank you or for someone else. I've never not gotten a result. The results aren't always what I expect but they always answer the request in some specific way. I am not aware of a prayer that I've had that hasn't been answered, or have gotten feedback from someone about.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(September 21, 2011 at 7:34 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Substantiate your positive claims with evidence please.
Would not god be finite OR infinite?
yes or no?
Hmm, I say, "Substantiate your positive claims..." and get back questions baiting me to make some positive claims. I don't believe there is a God/god or gods. You might as well ask me "What do unicorn farts smell like?" or "How fast can a leprechaun run?"
Why make wild claims about a thing you don't believe in?
meh, people see what they want to see. Despite people claiming that prayer works, It never happens on a measurable scale. In-fact an experiment done in recent years, Shows that prayer doesn't work.
The odd thing is prayer is easy to prove, So incredibly easy. Pray to whatever God you hold dear, pray that you cure some kids down syndrome, pray that God heals a quadrapalegic and lets him/her walk again,. Get a Dr's before and after report and BOOOM, prayer is proven and by association God.
This sadly never happens, We get a lot of bullshit that basically ties into good luck. Ie I was in mess x and Y sorted it out.
Come on people, You are better than this. If you want to prove the concept of prayer. It is easy to do. hell james randi will give you a million for it. Imagine the good works that will do for your church.
I used to live in a room full of mirrors; all I could see was me. I take my spirit and I crash my mirrors, now the whole world is here for me to see. Jimi Hendrix
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not. Kurt Cobain
September 22, 2011 at 4:49 am (This post was last modified: September 22, 2011 at 5:48 am by ElDinero.)
(September 21, 2011 at 8:10 pm)tackattack Wrote: 1-Alright, an example of me praying for myself that was successful is I was in a financial bind from floating checks and got "behind the ball" with overdraft fees etc. Completely my own doing. I didn't have anything to tithe on Sunday, and felt especially shameful about that. I spoke with my pastor about it and that night I prayed that I fulfill my commitment to the Church and get out of irresponsible financial mess. 3 days later my boss told me to stay late because him and his boss wanted to see me. I had no idea what for. Apparently 6 months earlier, unbeknown to me, my boss had put me in for an award. They presented me with $500. That was exactly enough to catch me up on all the late and overdraft fees with exactly enough left over for 2 weeks worth of tithe next Sunday and a good testimony.
2-An example of me praying for someone else was for my son. He had Mercer in his finer and his fingernail had come off. After taking his to the doctor and getting his medications and something for his pain and dressing his wound we were home for a few days. He only occasionally complained of pain. The Pastor was over for boardgames one night. The pain medication didn't seem to be working tonight and my son said he was in pain. He asked that I come and say prayers with him when I put him to bed. My wife, the pastor, his wife and I all went to pray over him for bed. We prayed that his pain, which he was experiencing prior to prayer, would go away and God would heal his wounds. When the prayer was over he was happy and not in pain (his words) and seemed kind of surprised by it. The next day he didn't want his pain medication and the redness that was there for 2 days prior had returned to normal and normal healing took place to regrow the nail.
This is your 'proof of God'? Are you actually serious? That is beyond pathetic, tack, and I'm sure the other Christians here are smacking their heads thinking 'What are you doing, you numbskull?'. This is your argument:
1. One day I was wearing red socks.
2. On the day I was wearing red socks, my favourite team won the Super Bowl.
Conclusion: The red socks caused my favourite team to win the Super Bowl.
With the first one, you've actually explained fully how the prayer had absolutely nothing to do with it, because your boss put you forward 6 months before you prayed. That meeting would have taken place whether you had been in financial turmoil or not (also, if 500 bucks sorts out your money woes, you weren't that bad off in the first place). To credit this to God is asinine. Where was God when you were getting yourself in the financial shit in the first place?
With the second one, what timescale did the doctor give for when the pain would stop? Also, I suggest you do some reading into the placebo effect. The mind is a powerful thing. While you're in a reading mood, have a quick look at a thing called 'confirmation bias'.
My favourite part is that you actually acknowledge that it might not have been God that answered your prayer. So even if we were to accept the ridiculously flimsy conclusion that these two things happened as a result of you praying...that's proof of God how?
Very embarassing that I have to explain this, and terribly frightening that you're probably passing this horse shit onto your child.
Just realised, it's a good job I used the Super Bowl and not the World Series, what with my 'red socks' analogy. That could have been confusing.
Quote:Apparently 6 months earlier, unbeknown to me, my boss had put me in for an award. They presented me with $500.
Thank your boss....not some fucking god!
Maybe his boss is god?
(Damn ... Should not have said that. Now he has proof of god's existence. Sorry!)
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
(September 20, 2011 at 4:19 am)ElDinero Wrote: Go ahead with the prayer answering, tack.
third attempt at posting this.
1-Alright, an example of me praying for myself that was successful is I was in a financial bind from floating checks and got "behind the ball" with overdraft fees etc. Completely my own doing. I didn't have anything to tithe on Sunday, and felt especially shameful about that. I spoke with my pastor about it and that night I prayed that I fulfill my commitment to the Church and get out of irresponsible financial mess. 3 days later my boss told me to stay late because him and his boss wanted to see me. I had no idea what for. Apparently 6 months earlier, unbeknown to me, my boss had put me in for an award. They presented me with $500. That was exactly enough to catch me up on all the late and overdraft fees with exactly enough left over for 2 weeks worth of tithe next Sunday and a good testimony.
2-An example of me praying for someone else was for my son. He had Mercer in his finer and his fingernail had come off. After taking his to the doctor and getting his medications and something for his pain and dressing his wound we were home for a few days. He only occasionally complained of pain. The Pastor was over for boardgames one night. The pain medication didn't seem to be working tonight and my son said he was in pain. He asked that I come and say prayers with him when I put him to bed. My wife, the pastor, his wife and I all went to pray over him for bed. We prayed that his pain, which he was experiencing prior to prayer, would go away and God would heal his wounds. When the prayer was over he was happy and not in pain (his words) and seemed kind of surprised by it. The next day he didn't want his pain medication and the redness that was there for 2 days prior had returned to normal and normal healing took place to regrow the nail.
Now I'm not sure if God answered the prayer or, Cthulu the 9th dimension overlord, or some telepathic race of aliens. I prayed to God though. When I was not a Christian, praying to Luna or Paimon or whatever else I never got so direct a response with and answer that fit so equally to what's requested. When I didn't believe in the supernatural no amount of coincidence added up so equitably. These are 2 of many and many more people have also had similar testimonies. These were not preplanned and I wouldn't have made the prayers if it wasn't suggested by an outside source. I don't commonly pray for things, mostly my prayers are a thank you or for someone else. I've never not gotten a result. The results aren't always what I expect but they always answer the request in some specific way. I am not aware of a prayer that I've had that hasn't been answered, or have gotten feedback from someone about.
How the hell can you say a god had anything to do with that? There are far more rational explanations. I was violently sick yesterday, now I'm a thousand times better today. I vomited last night, I was in agony. Now I'm not going to jump to conclusions and say some god helped me. My body's defences as well as known techniques that I used that helps fight off illnesses. Thankfully I had what I needed.
Now how comes a god would help you? You've got a roof over your head, food readily available to you, a family and I would bet you would have money in your bank. Yet there are people out there with non of these things, why don't we see god helping them? There are kids starving, dying (often painfully), many out in the cold and have no future. They need help, not you. Your fine, in fact from people who are a thousand times worse off than you, you're a super rich and super lucky guy who's living in the delusion in which he thinks he's poor and in need of divine help. I've been really sick, many times and painfully but I'd still rather god help others who really are worse off than me. I'm only sick, but at least I've got a roof over my head, a family, a full belly of food.
This is why I find stories like yours pathetic. You think your in a bad way? Take a trip to Africa and visit some villages. They are highly religious, always asking for help and never receive any. Yet for some reason, you being in a far better position needs it more. Since according to you, you got it, yet they didn't.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
Oh, but Ace, sometimes those poor Africans do get the ultimate response from god: Death. Such a sweet release from a life of pain, and then they can just hang about in the ether with ol' jeebus.
(September 23, 2011 at 8:30 am)Epimethean Wrote: Oh, but Ace, sometimes those poor Africans do get the ultimate response from god: Death. Such a sweet release from a life of pain, and then they can just hang about in the ether with ol' jeebus.
Indeed, a long slow and agonising death. Like starving to death, or a painful illness that can last days before they actually die. And long before then they'll have worms eating into their eye balls, flys that fly into their mouths and eyes, having to drink filthy water. Yeah, thank you god. How nice of you.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
