Posts: 8731
Threads: 425
Joined: October 7, 2014
Reputation:
37
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 9:26 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 9:15 pm)YGninja Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 9:07 pm)Blackout Wrote: [emphasis mine]
So basically, as long as it's set by god, it's meant to be followed, no questions asked? Nice
What do you mean, "no questions asked", you already said they are obvious to any reasonable atheist.
God commands you to stone homosexuals.
But why don't "moral" Christians follow that.
God commands you to stone your bratty kids.
But why don't "moral" Christians follow that.
God commands you to not work on Sunday.
But why do some Christians work on Sunday.
God commands you to sell your daughter if she is raped. (50 shekels 11.50 cents.)
But why don't Christians follow that.
Yet no christian would ever do that above because it is wrong.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
Posts: 132
Threads: 1
Joined: January 28, 2015
Reputation:
1
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 9:31 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 9:26 pm)dyresand Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 9:15 pm)YGninja Wrote: What do you mean, "no questions asked", you already said they are obvious to any reasonable atheist.
God commands you to stone homosexuals.
But why don't "moral" Christians follow that.
God commands you to stone your bratty kids.
But why don't "moral" Christians follow that.
God commands you to not work on Sunday.
But why do some Christians work on Sunday.
God commands you to sell your daughter if she is raped. (50 shekels 11.50 cents.)
But why don't Christians follow that.
Yet no christian would ever do that above because it is wrong.
God doesn't command me any of those things. Those are Mosaic laws, not Christian.
PS, I think you have completely the wrong idea about the last one, if your referring to what i think you are. ( A rapist must pay the family compensation and marry the girl, unable to leave her for life)
Posts: 2344
Threads: 79
Joined: November 18, 2014
Reputation:
42
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 9:33 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 9:31 pm)YGninja Wrote: PS, I think you have completely the wrong idea about the last one, if your referring to what i think you are. ( A rapist must pay the family compensation and marry the girl, unable to leave her for life)
Explain please.
Posts: 132
Threads: 1
Joined: January 28, 2015
Reputation:
1
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 9:44 pm
(This post was last modified: January 28, 2015 at 9:46 pm by YGninja.)
(January 28, 2015 at 9:33 pm)Nope Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 9:31 pm)YGninja Wrote: PS, I think you have completely the wrong idea about the last one, if your referring to what i think you are. ( A rapist must pay the family compensation and marry the girl, unable to leave her for life)
Explain please.
That law is for the protection of the girl and her child.
The law regarding rape of a betrothed girl is thus:
“But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor, 27because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her."
But for an unmarried girl it is this:
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."
We see, the man is only allowed to live, so that the girl and her offspring do not suffer more, or die. Instead his punishment is to support her unto his death. In those days, a unmarried girl with child was effectively a death sentence, she would not have been able to get another man to work and support her and her family, so the rapist must do it. It made the best of a bad situation, and was a law formed to protect the victims or rape.
Posts: 183
Threads: 7
Joined: January 13, 2015
Reputation:
11
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 9:44 pm
The Christian statement that the OT doesn't apply is illogical. The NT claims that Jesus told his followers that they should continue to follow the law that was set down. Most Christians don't even follow the NT.
They don't sell all of their possessions, leave their families, and go live like they are instructed.
Gone
Posts: 8731
Threads: 425
Joined: October 7, 2014
Reputation:
37
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 9:52 pm
(This post was last modified: January 28, 2015 at 9:53 pm by dyresand.)
(January 28, 2015 at 9:31 pm)YGninja Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 9:26 pm)dyresand Wrote: God commands you to stone homosexuals.
But why don't "moral" Christians follow that.
God commands you to stone your bratty kids.
But why don't "moral" Christians follow that.
God commands you to not work on Sunday.
But why do some Christians work on Sunday.
God commands you to sell your daughter if she is raped. (50 shekels 11.50 cents.)
But why don't Christians follow that.
Yet no christian would ever do that above because it is wrong.
God doesn't command me any of those things. Those are Mosaic laws, not Christian.
PS, I think you have completely the wrong idea about the last one, if your referring to what i think you are. ( A rapist must pay the family compensation and marry the girl, unable to leave her for life)
yeah he totally does even the last one its written in the bible clear as day ill even post the verses.
Leviticus Chapters 18 & 20 - kill homosexuals
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - stone your kids
Deuteronomy 5:12 - don't fucking work on Sunday
Deuteronomy 22:29 - sale your deflowered daughter
Its there in the bible and you cant cherry pick your way out of it he wants you to follow those by the letter.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
Posts: 183
Threads: 7
Joined: January 13, 2015
Reputation:
11
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 10:03 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 9:44 pm)YGninja Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 9:33 pm)Nope Wrote: Explain please.
That law is for the protection of the girl and her child.
The law regarding rape of a betrothed girl is thus:
“But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor, 27because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her."
But for an unmarried girl it is this:
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."
We see, the man is only allowed to live, so that the girl and her offspring do not suffer more, or die. Instead his punishment is to support her unto his death. In those days, a unmarried girl with child was effectively a death sentence, she would not have been able to get another man to work and support her and her family, so the rapist must do it. It made the best of a bad situation, and was a law formed to protect the victims or rape.
This is just so wrong. A woman gets raped, and then, not only is her rapist not punished, she is forced to live with him. That's not making the best of a bad situation; it's just cruelty, plain and simple. It doesn't fix the situation, or even put a band-aid or it; it wides the problem even further. And, seriously, there was no other solution whatsoever?
Gone
Posts: 132
Threads: 1
Joined: January 28, 2015
Reputation:
1
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 10:03 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 9:52 pm)dyresand Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 9:31 pm)YGninja Wrote: God doesn't command me any of those things. Those are Mosaic laws, not Christian.
PS, I think you have completely the wrong idea about the last one, if your referring to what i think you are. ( A rapist must pay the family compensation and marry the girl, unable to leave her for life)
yeah he totally does even the last one its written in the bible clear as day ill even post the verses.
Leviticus Chapters 18 & 20 - kill homosexuals
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - stone your kids
Deuteronomy 5:12 - don't fucking work on Sunday
Deuteronomy 22:29 - sale your deflowered daughter
Its there in the bible and you cant cherry pick your way out of it he wants you to follow those by the letter.
Sorry but you aren't understanding the basics of the OT/NT.
For instance what the word "Testament", means. Testament means covenant, aka law with God. This is why the NT is referred to as "The Good News". It is the new covenant which superseeds the old. The mosaic law was for a very small, very specific group of people during a very specific time. A tribe of people who were surrounded by other tribes who, for instance, burned alive their own babies as sacrifice. The Mosaic laws were harsh because that tribe needed to remain intact and survive until Jesus would be born, who would "bless all nations". The NT applies to all of us, the OT applied to ancient Israelites before Jesus.
Posts: 8731
Threads: 425
Joined: October 7, 2014
Reputation:
37
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 10:08 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 10:03 pm)YGninja Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 9:52 pm)dyresand Wrote: yeah he totally does even the last one its written in the bible clear as day ill even post the verses.
Leviticus Chapters 18 & 20 - kill homosexuals
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - stone your kids
Deuteronomy 5:12 - don't fucking work on Sunday
Deuteronomy 22:29 - sale your deflowered daughter
Its there in the bible and you cant cherry pick your way out of it he wants you to follow those by the letter.
Sorry but you aren't understanding the basics of the OT/NT.
For instance what the word "Testament", means. Testament means covenant, aka law with God. This is why the NT is referred to as "The Good News". It is the new covenant which superseeds the old. The mosaic law was for a very small, very specific group of people during a very specific time. A tribe of people who were surrounded by other tribes who, for instance, burned alive their own babies as sacrifice. The Mosaic laws were harsh because that tribe needed to remain intact and survive until Jesus would be born, who would "bless all nations". The NT applies to all of us, the OT applied to ancient Israelites before Jesus.
:| You're killing me here if its in the bible and believe it to be gods word than that is is will and that is his law. Do not try to mix it around and make god look like a soft fluffy loving bunny because he is not.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
Posts: 5706
Threads: 67
Joined: June 13, 2014
Reputation:
69
RE: Challenge regarding Christian morality
January 28, 2015 at 10:20 pm
(This post was last modified: January 28, 2015 at 10:33 pm by Jenny A.)
(January 28, 2015 at 9:05 pm)YGninja Wrote: The importance isn't in the rules themselves, it is in knowing that the rules are set by God. The law is in your hearts, this is why it seems obvious to you, but you can easily override the laws, as i am sure we have all done many hundreds of times in our lives. The important thing is the realization that they are Gods laws.
Hardly. First of all the rules, as you call them have varied with time and place. That suggests they are largely cultural and or biological, not written by god. Even those of you who claim they are written by god, can't agree on what the rules are. If you don't believe me, try sitting down with a Jew or a Islamist, and setting out the rules. And that's just one group of traditions. Hindus will take you further a field.
Second, the rules are damned important. They are what allows human society to function.
Third, generally speaking, more secular nations are more lawful nations. That suggests thinking the are god's rules gets in the way of enforcing the rules.
(January 28, 2015 at 10:03 pm)YGninja Wrote: For instance what the word "Testament", means. Testament means covenant, aka law with God. This is why the NT is referred to as "The Good News". It is the new covenant which superseeds the old. The mosaic law was for a very small, very specific group of people during a very specific time. A tribe of people who were surrounded by other tribes who, for instance, burned alive their own babies as sacrifice. The Mosaic laws were harsh because that tribe needed to remain intact and survive until Jesus would be born, who would "bless all nations". The NT applies to all of us, the OT applied to ancient Israelites before Jesus.
Yes, I gather you see the Gospels as good news. But in order to have a covenant with anyone, that someone must exist. God does not. Nor is it clear how much of the OT Jesus thought applied. He says first one thing than another. And he didn't refer to scripture as a covenant. Why? First of all because neither the Old nor the New Testament had been canonized at that time. And, since it wasn't written until a good 50 years or more after his death, he had nothing to do with the writings now known as the New Testament.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
|
