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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 6:54 pm
(This post was last modified: February 18, 2015 at 7:55 pm by Pyrrho.)
(February 18, 2015 at 6:47 pm)Alex K Wrote: It confuses me slightly that you first say there is no reason to believe sth and then claim to withold judgment. To me that is judgment.
To have no reason to believe something does not entail having a reason to believe its opposite. For example, I have no reason to believe you are presently wearing a cotton shirt. And likewise, I have no reason to believe that you are not presently wearing a cotton shirt. So I withhold judgement on whether you are presently wearing a cotton shirt or not.
Now, there is a judgement involved in this, but it is about my lack of evidence for either position. It is because I lack evidence one way or the other that I refrain from taking a position one way or the other.
For it to be reasonable for me to take a position one way or the other, I would need evidence for it. But lacking evidence for something does not, by itself, properly lead to rejecting something as false.
(February 18, 2015 at 6:47 pm)Alex K Wrote: But anyways, before we go on - do we have a working definition of what constitutes an explanation?
I don't think so.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 7:34 pm
But I'd say in general, the OP proposition fails to infinite regression. Given any framework (e.g. space time), I can ask "in what framework does it exist?" Many will call the question nonsensical-- but that's just because it's apparent the question is unanswerable from within space-time.
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 7:38 pm
(This post was last modified: February 18, 2015 at 7:44 pm by IATIA.)
(February 18, 2015 at 3:54 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote: 1. Does everything have an explanation? Yes, we just may never know. Quote:2. Does everything have a cause?
IMHO, no. In fact, IMHO, nothing has a cause.
(February 18, 2015 at 6:41 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Not everything has a cause. Only those things that come into or go out of being, i.e. anything subject to change. Gravity 'causes' things to fall. What went in or out of being?
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 7:44 pm
Define cause and explanation.
1 - Probably yes, but we may not know right now what it is. Many things that were once unexplainable are now common sense. I still don't know what you mean by explanation here
2 - I doubt it - But most circumstances do have a cause, I just can't say for certain than everything needs a cause because that signifies complete infinite regression.
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 8:00 pm
(February 18, 2015 at 7:38 pm)IATIA Wrote: Yes, we just may never know.Quote:2. Does everything have a cause?
IMHO, no. In fact, IMHO, nothing has a cause.
Interesting answer. Explain?
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 8:20 pm
(February 18, 2015 at 3:54 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote:
[succinct]
1. Arguably, probably
2. Arguably, probably
[/succinct]
Sum ergo sum
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 8:30 pm
(This post was last modified: February 18, 2015 at 8:34 pm by IATIA.)
(February 18, 2015 at 8:00 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Interesting answer. Explain? Causality leads to infinite regression or 'first cause'. Neither of which I find acceptable. Infinite regression should be a moot point by now, so no need to elaborate.
First cause has a similar issue. What was before the first cause? If one uses the "god always was" claim, we still have infinite regression in what was god's first thought and what was before god's first thought? The escape from that is "god exists out of time." That does not work either, because there must be a sequence of events from god and no universe to the beginning of the universe. We have causality again and infinite regression again.
More acceptable is that everything just is. Within our puny little brains, we have created time and causality to account for everyday perceptions, but this does not envelope the big picture at all.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 9:15 pm
(This post was last modified: February 18, 2015 at 9:21 pm by Pizza.)
(February 18, 2015 at 6:54 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: (February 18, 2015 at 6:47 pm)Alex K Wrote: But anyways, before we go on - do we have a working definition of what constitutes an explanation?
I don't think so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanation
"An explanation is a set of statements constructed to describe a set of facts which clarifies the causes, context, and consequences of those facts."
I hope that helps.
(February 18, 2015 at 7:34 pm)bennyboy Wrote: But I'd say in general, the OP proposition fails to infinite regression. Given any framework (e.g. space time), I can ask "in what framework does it exist?" Many will call the question nonsensical-- but that's just because it's apparent the question is unanswerable from within space-time. What's so bad about an infinite regression?
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 10:26 pm
(This post was last modified: February 18, 2015 at 10:54 pm by Pyrrho.)
(February 18, 2015 at 9:15 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote: (February 18, 2015 at 6:54 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: I don't think so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanation
"An explanation is a set of statements constructed to describe a set of facts which clarifies the causes, context, and consequences of those facts."
I hope that helps.
...
In that case, there probably isn't an explanation for everything. Seriously, do you think that, for everything, there is a set of statements that clarifies the causes, context, and consequences of those facts?
A lot of things are unknown, which does not seem compatible with the idea that for everything there is a set of statements that clarifies the causes, context, and consequences of those facts.
If you disagree, go ahead, explain everything to me. I'm waiting.
Edited to add:
With that idea of "explanation," everything must have a cause or causes in order for everything to have an explanation, since "explanation," among other things, clarifies the causes of things. One cannot clarify causes if they do not exist.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: "Everything has a cause and an explanation" discussion.
February 18, 2015 at 10:51 pm
(This post was last modified: February 18, 2015 at 10:54 pm by The Reality Salesman01.)
(February 18, 2015 at 3:54 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote: I have two related questions:
1. Does everything have an explanation?
2. Does everything have a cause?
1) everything that can be understood has an explanation, and each of those explanations are subject to being wrong.
2) of those things, a cause is a rudimentary part of any explanatory theory and it too is subject to being shown false.
1) Do chickens come from eggs?
2) Did every chicken come from an egg?
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