Intro from a christian

[Esquilax]

Wiggles hasn't been here since Feb 23rd.

Perhaps he got raptured.

I fixed up a broken pair of quote tags in one of his posts, and when he read the automated PM that goes out whenever we do that, he immediately assumed that I'd deleted his post outright without checking- he only had fourteen posts at the time, so that would have been easy- and sent me a hugely self-righteous and indignant PM, before storming off in a huff, never to be seen again.

I kinda hope he comes back so he can see my reply PM and maybe show some contrition, but I doubt he will, given the conclusions he jumped to.

[wiploc]

Hello welcome

Being atheist does not mean saying there is no god, it's saying there is no good reason to believe there is a god.

Don't conflate the motivation with the position. If you don't believe gods exist, you are an atheist, regardless of whether you think there are good reasons to believe.

Consider Alvin Plantinga, who claims he couldn't disbelieve even if god's nonexistence were proven. He'd be a theist, but he wouldn't be saying there's reason to believe in gods.

[robvalue]

Good point. That one slipped out by mistake it seems.

Heads will roll in my QA department!

[CWoods]

Now lets begin with a prayer.  Just kidding atheists.
My name is wiggy and the reason why I am here is to see how atheists think.  I have debated many atheists and I am curious as to how they can be certain there is no God.  After all bible says God hides his face from the wicked and gives them over to a depraved mind.  A fool says there is no God.
I dont think I could ever be converted to atheism thats because I think I have all the answers to all of the difficult questions like hell and suffering and many false Gods.  My belief is based on evidence of what I see and feel and experience.  God to me is a graceous character full of love and hope for humanity.  We are a vapour but God is eternal.  I dont know why so many hate God when the gospel is about love.  There is no greater love than to lay down your life for a friend and that is what Jesus did for us.  
I hope that I am wrong but Christianity makes too much sense to me.  I dont want anyone to go to hell but hell is what it is and is reservered for the God hater.  Deny the creator and lose your soul.  Science even proves we have a soul.

I understand this thread is old, but I'm putting in my 2 cents worth in case anyone whats to read it.


I have never met an atheist who has tried to convert a Christian so I don't think you have to worry about it. Those of us who were brought up in religious homes were not "converted. "   Most of us had tiny doubts, which evolved into bigger doubts over time. Many of us tried to believe, especially it we started to doubt when we were young.  All my friends and family believed, so of course, I didn't understand why I didn't.  Religion didn't make sense to me. I could not make myself believe what I didn't believe, even after reading the Bible several times, and studying other books about religion.

Most of us are OK with your believing what you want to believe, as long as you are not trying to impose it on us ---which of course you have already started to do by quoting Bible verses. If we don't believe in a god, then we don't believe the Bible is the word of god.  We think it's fiction.  I'm not going to say we can't learn anything from fiction, but then we can't believe it's true either. I read a lot, both fiction and non-fiction. When I read fiction, even if I know it is based in a real city or that the situations the author creates are designed to make us think they could really happen, we always question what parts of the story are real and what are not.  Sometimes the author adds a forward on an addendum to explain what is or is not true. The Bible has neither.

I take my life's lessons, my ethics and my values from many sources.  Basically I base them on "What makes sense."  If we are to get along in this world, it doesn't make sense to hurt others or to steal, for example.

As to love?  After reading the Bible, cover to cover several times, I found an awful lot of cruelty from the god of the Bible, including sending anyone who doubts him to hell. Even if he did exist, I would not worship the cruel and jealous god I have read about in the Bible.

I agree with what Mark Twain said about the Bible: "It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies." (Letters from the Earth)

You say you want to learn how we think.  If that were true, you would be asking questions, not imply that we are all going to hell. If your religion gives you comfort and a sense of belonging, that's fine. Enjoy it.  But you are wasting your time telling us we're doomed to a horrific afterlife in a place we don't believe exists.