Why I'm Still a Christian

[Lek]

You'd be considered evil if you insisted she wasn't allowed pain medication because the birth wouldn't mean as much without her suffering.

But God did allow the doctors to give her pain mediation. One of our obligations is to help and comfort the suffering, among many others. Like I said before, God has commissioned us to carry out his work in the world.

[FatAndFaithless]

God has commissioned us to carry out his work in the world.

Pfft, well he sure as hell isn't.

[robvalue]

Really. I mean, the excuses will never end. He could come down and slap his dick in a kids face and it would still be righteous.

You're saying yeah he was evil to my wife, but he gave a bit of power to someone else to remove that evil a bit. What??

No one could ever help all the suffering in the world. Your wife got pain med, from humans (not God) which is great. What about the third world? What about every animal getting abused by humans?

Boy oh boy.

Life will make so much more sense once you stop having to twist reality to fit a fairy tale. I feel you have the potential to break out of this, an opportunity most theists on this board will never see. Come on man, you can do it!

You've shown a level of thought I've not seen in any of the others (sorry guys). Admitting evolution is like a mammoth thing, you have huge respect from me for that.

[Lek]

Suffering is evil because it makes us feel bad, and God could make us ultimately just as happy without putting us through it. As humans we experience relief and pride when we work through suffering, but we didn't have to be that way. God could just make us happy all the time. You're still thinking in terms of God having all these boundaries and parameters to work round, like he turned up in the middle of a crisis with half the resources he needed. He created everything to be this way.

I'm glad you say you'd stop suffering. Right now, I hope. The fact that he will stop it is a ridiculous promise you have been fed, because it can never be proved wrong like every religious claim. It will be a bit late for all those who are already dead and offed themselves from suffering and went to hell. What's holding him back, with his unlimited power?

You'd stop suffering right now, especially if you were omnisciently aware of every last ounce of pain and misery felt by every human and animal. I'd stop it right now. Your omnipotent God is dragging out the suffering because... Either because he is sick and twisted, he doesn't care or actually enjoys it... Or in fact he's not there at all and you've been fed unfalsifiable promises to keep you doing what people want you to do.

If I was to make a world, there would be no suffering in the first place. You can make up excuses for God all day long, but he did what I would never do and that makes me more caring and moral than him. He's an abusive tyrant. Except of course, that he's entirely fictional. What would the world look like without God? If he hadn't made it? If he wasn't interfering? It would look exactly the same. You don't experience God at all except in your interpretation of events due to your continued exposure to religious myth and other people acting that way.

Just stop and take a really good look at the suffering in the world. Go watch some videos of what it's like for children in the third world. Then tell me God loves those children. Oh, they're going to heaven? Well put them right there, why make them and their family suffer first? Why not put us all in heaven in the first place?

I can't stop that suffering. I would if I could. Your God could, he won't.

We could alleviate most of the poverty and hunger in the third world if every single person followed the instructions of Jesus and fed the hungry, clothed the naked and cared for the sick. That is what we have been called to do, but first we need to change the minds of those who would rather live for themselves. That is the way God has made it. In the very first book of the bible God gave dominion over the creatures of the earth to mankind with the commission to care for the world. Instead, too many of us ignore him and live only for ourselves. God intends for us to be the keepers of the world that he gave us - even though there is suffering involved.

[robvalue]

Oh boy.... Oh boy... He makes kids to starve and die of diseases as a sport for him to watch to see if we go solve the problem he created? If we fail, those kids suffer? Don't you see what kind of sick bastard you are not just describing but supporting? If I thought that was real, what you just said, the last thing I would do is worship that monster. I'd beg him to fucking stop it right now! Stop punishing kids for the supposed inaction of other people! What is wrong with you God?

Ugh. OK I give up for now. I'll try again another day.

Just think about this: what horrors would God have to unleash upon the world for you to stop and say this is not ok! Because fuck me, I think I've seen it all. I couldn't imagine anything worse than what I know already goes on. I literally have to delude myself into thinking it's not happening to be able to function, or else I'd collapse in despair and never get up.

[Lek]

Life will make so much more sense once you stop having to twist reality to fit a fairy tale. I feel you have the potential to break out of this, an opportunity most theists on this board will never see. Come on man, you can do it!

That's just the thing. Life makes no sense to an atheist. We live in this world with all this pain and suffering absolutely no reason at all. We're just here by chance. We live through the suffering and try to make the best of it and then we die with no memory of anything that happened. And this goes on and on until the universe self-destructs and something else comes about. All this for absolutely no reason! What kind of sense does this make? I see you as being person who comprehend more than just what you can see on he surface. Maybe you're the one who needs to break out of it. Come out of your scientific box and see that there is more to the world than what floats on the surface. We are spiritual beings as well as physical beings - different from all the other creatures upon the earth.

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Oh boy.... Oh boy... He makes kids to starve and die of diseases as a sport for him to watch to see if we go solve the problem he created? If we fail, those kids suffer? Don't you see what kind of sick bastard you are not just describing but supporting? If I thought that was real, what you just said, the last thing I would do is worship that monster. I'd beg him to fucking stop it right now! Stop punishing kids for the supposed inaction of other people! What is wrong with you God?

Ugh. OK I give up for now. I'll try again another day.

Just think about this: what horrors would God have to unleash upon the world for you to stop and say this is not ok! Because fuck me, I think I've seen it all. I couldn't imagine anything worse than what I know already goes on. I literally have to delude myself into thinking it's not happening to be able to function, or else I'd collapse in despair and never get up.

I mean no disrespect by this, but you did mention that you suffer from depression. I know that my anxiety colors my view of the world. Could it be that your depression is a factor that causes you to see the world in an unreal way?

[pocaracas]

Yep, we are wishful thinking beings.

[robvalue]

No, we're not spiritual beings. That is a meaningless word I'm afraid. It's flowery language with no basis in reality.

There is not point, yes. Exactly. I can handle that. We naturally seek answers, but sometimes there isn't any. I'd rather say "I don't know" than live in a fantasy.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, you've probably been raised since birth with all this mythology forced into your head, so it's perfectly natural you're going to fight to protect it. But... I wish you could see how crystal clear, how unambiguously blatant it is from outside religion that it is all complete hogwash. Like, imagine watching kids playing around pretending dragons are everywhere. I don't mean to be patronising, but it's like that. It's not your fault, you've had your brain crammed full of this stuff and taught as fact.

Sure you can think I'm a dick and I'm trying to trick you, but honestly I'm trying to help you, because I see hope for you. I've blocked most of the theists on this site, as they are so far beyond reason I see no point even talking to them most of the time. I get nothing out of trying to get people to see reason other than the satisfaction of how much happier I know they will be. That's it. I really mean no offense, but only to help. I see it as people trapped in cages, without them knowing about it. I can see the cage, they can't.

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I've been an atheist all my life, both when I was very happy and when I've been depressed. It's made no difference to my evaluation.

[Lek]

No, we're not spiritual beings. That is a meaningless word I'm afraid. It's flowery language with no basis in reality.

There is not point, yes. Exactly. I can handle that. We naturally seek answers, but sometimes there isn't any. I'd rather say "I don't know" than live in a fantasy.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, you've probably been raised since birth with all this mythology forced into your head, so it's perfectly natural you're going to fight to protect it. But... I wish you could see how crystal clear, how unambiguously blatant it is from outside religion that it is all complete hogwash. Like, imagine watching kids playing around pretending dragons are everywhere. I don't mean to be patronising, but it's like that. It's not your fault, you've had your brain crammed full of this stuff and taught as fact.

Sure you can think I'm a dick and I'm trying to trick you, but honestly I'm trying to help you, because I see hope for you. I've blocked most of the theists on this site, as they are so far beyond reason I see no point even talking to them most of the time. I get nothing out of trying to get people to see reason other than the satisfaction of how much happier I know they will be. That's it. I really mean no offence, but only to help.

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I've been an atheist all my life, both when I was very happy and when I've been depressed. It's made no difference to my evaluation.

Okay. I suppose there will be more to talk about. I do enjoy the discussion with you.

[robvalue]

I'm glad

I think we really would be friends. I think you're a good person, and you understand my position. I really want to help... But I understand to expect you to just throw away years of faith is unrealistic.

Thanks for listening to me. As I said, most theists are so far gone that I may as well be talking to a brick wall. It's a compliment to you that I am trying here with you. I can visualise you free from this, and you're not afraid to hear it even if you may not ever accept it. That's a big thing.